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Author Topic: NEW processing GOLD PAN on the market. (Pyramid Pro Pan)  (Read 51094 times)

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VikingSniper

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Re: NEW processing GOLD PAN on the market.
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2008, 08:22:28 AM »
I guess every personal preferece varies,I like the plug,one could process for hours and just pull the plug and dump
the cons into a bucket and cleanup later.I think the keyword is processing pan thats why I want it.

Offline Ghoti

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Re: NEW processing GOLD PAN on the market.
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2008, 10:58:02 AM »
The demo shows opening the plug and emptying the entire contents into a pan and then pouring water in to wash out the remaining concentrates. The plug seems to be redundant if you are going to remove all the concentrate. Just another thing to lose or go wrong when your back in the wild. (Murphy's Law in action)

VikingSniper

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Re: NEW processing GOLD PAN on the market.
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2008, 11:28:33 AM »
Thats a good point,but when I go out to the sticks and bushes I always take
THE HANDY MANS SECRET WEAPON. <-laugh-> <-laugh->
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Offline The Fossicker

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Re: NEW processing GOLD PAN on the market.
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2008, 07:23:20 PM »
Howdy Gentlemen,
To start, I must say you guys are really working my pan over pro and con. I love it! My feelings are - if you make claims about your product or whatever, you should be able to back it up. This includes me so let's really get into it. As I said before, I spent over 5 years developing the Pyramid Pro Pan. I have done so many experiments on the different aspects of this pan and others that I have lost count. Many of the facts I learned along the way have been some real eye openers.
Let me start with Deserdog. Yes you are right about the specific gravity of lead over gems. The reason I picked very small flattened shot was to demonstrate that comparatively small lighter items will stay in the pan. If you had a diamond of that size, I don't think you could identify it unless you were a diamond dealer. A gem of identifiable size would most likely be the same weight as the small shot. If I'm wrong, then I stand corrected. By the way, Garnets are common in the Pyramid Pro Pan. I'm glad you are very familiar with the grizzly because I am also and have tested it and others under many conditions. On your point about working well under real river conditions - I'm sorry, I have tested the Grizzly under controlled conditions using the Grizzly panning technique at the rivers and you can lose up to 50% of the gold in real river muck and hard packed gravels. The reason is that most gold loss is not from harsh use, but rather from improper cleaning of your gravels. This is why I use riffles in the Pyramid Pro Pan. They have nothing to do with holding the gold! If my gravel is clean, I can pull out the riffles and still keep all the gold. The Grizzly claims that his step riffles are what keeps and deflects the gold down toward the trap. Sorry again, he's wrong and I can prove it. The next item is the speed of the pans in processing material. Under river test conditions the record so far for a 5 gallon bucket of gravel using the Pyramid Pro Pan is 8 minutes. Most people tested in at 15 or so minutes. I could do it in the time you mentioned about the Grizzly, but with river condition gravels you would blow out too much gold. The next time you run a 5 gallon bucket of river gravel using the Grizzly panning technique, do it in a tub, then run your gravels again. A real eye opener. While I'm on the subject of riffles and gold retention, Viking Sniper and Rockpup were talking about riffle edges. Yes edges make a difference.
Remember I said that most gold is lost from not cleaning your gravels well enough. This is very important in fact one of the advantages of the Pyramid Pro Pan is that you can have installed riffle designs that are specially made for various gravel, muck and clay conditions. It will cost you more, but if you are in a professional situation it pays to adapt. Now about the plug. I noticed that some of you had comments about this item. First the Grizzly. Just about everyone I have talked too about the Grizzly has lost at least 1 or more plugs. Yes you can make up some type of device to hold it including duct tape (I've seen this done,) but this is too much a bother for most of us. When I first made some of my models I made my own plugs, but after considering the fact that everyone would have to order them from me to fix their pan, I decided to standardise it to a good gripping plug that is easily bought from hardware and plumbing stores. Ghoti asked why even have the plug? After all on the video I pull the plug out and dump the contents into a finishing pan. The reason for the plug is so you can check for gold content from the worked gravels in your pan when out prospecting for a spot. On the video I dump it all out like you would at the end of the day when working your spot - no other reason. (If you work the pan properly, the gold you see when pulling the plug will represent 80 to 100% of the gold in the gravel load. What's left in the pan isn't important when out prospecting. This is because unlike the Grizzly, the Pyramid Pro Pan has a premix chamber that promotes the gold to fall into the trap. By the way, this feature really separates the difference between it and the Grizzly. As far as emptying your end of the day gravel after working your spot, it's just easier to dump it through the plug, but if you want too, dump it over the side if it makes you feel better. So much for the plug subject. The next item is the advantage of the Grizzly Pan. Yes you can use the Grizzly in shallower water and the price between them both is considerable, but so are the features. Just so you know, I don't make a big wad of money from selling these pans. There is a considerable amount of work into making a Pyramid Pro Pan so I don't feel that the price is our of line with the product. If I could afford to use an Injection Mold like the Grizzly does, then they would be much cheaper. But for now, it is what it is. Rockpup mentioned about the difference in plastic. He's right. The reason I use High Density Polyethylene is that it can take all kinds of conditions and is tough as a schoolyard bully. It took me an extra year of development because I wanted to use this material. Two major companies failed me in producing the shell properly with this material. The problem has been solved now and as far as I'm concerned, it was worth it. Well gentlemen I'm starting to get writer cramps. Thank you for the pros and cons, I really like all this input. Please do keep kicking around this subject until you're satisfied. I will keep answering your questions as best as I can now and in the future.

The Fossicker
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Offline MephistoCat

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Re: NEW processing GOLD PAN on the market.
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2008, 08:54:42 PM »
Thanks for the wealth of info on the pan!

i really like the handles,   good idea!

ok someone here buy one, so we can have a pan shootout! i'll use my Montana Rocker pan, someone else can user their Rotapan, and a third can use the Pyramid Pro pan!

used to be Mephisto here.........now im back as MephistoCat!

Offline RocksForBrains

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Re: NEW processing GOLD PAN on the market.
« Reply #25 on: May 28, 2008, 09:02:44 PM »
Howdy Dennis,

I appreciate all of the research you've put in to your designs, In all honesty It does seem like a solid production pan in my opinion.  The price does seem a little steep at first but when considering other somewhat similar pans sell for $149.95 and don't mention the lifetime guarantee as you do.

Actually, what are the details of your lifetime Guarantee?   If the pan should fail during normal usage, would the product will be repaired or replaced?
Have Rock Hammer will Travel

Offline The Fossicker

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Re: NEW processing GOLD PAN on the market.
« Reply #26 on: May 28, 2008, 10:53:36 PM »
Howdy RocksForBrain,
Here's what I mean by Life Time Guarantee:
If you damage the Pyramid Pro Pan in any way, which means even running it over by accident with your truck, just slide the flattened pan into an envelop and send it back for a new one. No questions asked!

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Offline Greg in BC

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Re: NEW processing GOLD PAN on the market.
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2008, 09:43:30 AM »
Fossicker, thank you for answering the questions and putting yourself out there with an open diologue. You have earned respect with this as some manufacturers simply make the product and sell it - with many unsubstantiated claims. I think it actually becomes tougher for you in a way because you get to deal with the scrutiny of some very intelligent folks - for good or bad.  You seem open and capable of answering these questions so hats off to you and wishing good fortune with your product as you have obviously spent a lot of time with it. You really get kudo's for the warranty as well - would that have to be shipped back to Auss at owners expense or will you have a North American distributor?

Let me say that from an initial look over your pan and video it looks to be a very useful piece of equipment. The handles are a marvelous add on for us that have cold water and the concentrating zone looks well thought out.

I do have a couple of comments/questions.

If it works as well as you claim then you should get some sales.  I am sure you have many many hours and $$ invested and the way it is manufactured the current price is reasonable, to you, to make a profit.  The sad thing is that as a matter of marketing reality there is a magic price for everything and if people simply see your product as a special pan then it will be compared to products 10x cheaper.  You are in the Rotapan or sluice box price range.

I think the Rotapan suffers some of the same perception problems.  Some people have bought it with varying degrees of satisfaction but you don't see everyone with one because many people say why not just get a sluice for that price and a pan for 10x cheaper.  In reality you probably have more labour involved in manufacturing your pan than many sluice manufacturers in the same price range.

Since you are open to probing questions  <-thinking->  ;) - I know that to market your product a video like you have is a good start.  For myself I would like to see a video with bank run material, dug directly out of the bank, with clay in the material and an assorted sizing of rocks. I have clay and have had problems with some pans packing that bottom gold zone tight so there is no room for heavies.  Show a run with cleaning the entire pan out like in the current video and more importantly how you would normally run for production (since this is where you want to market too - it is not a finishing pan) with checking for values now and then from the plug.  I'm sure you know a spot where you can find gold in every pan (small sub 100mesh stuff) and then get a clear close up with the video or still pic with something for comparison sizing.

Although it is always nice to see a couple of grams of gold in a pan at once, that is not the norm for my area so can't relate at all to having that mixed into a half pan full of clean sized material. I know you want to show it can catch gold - but even my plate, drinking cup, shovel head or hand can catch 'some' gold all the time. [blink]Show me the money - what can it really do![/blink]

I know for display purposes (for all mining gear) it is better to use 'cleaned' gravels so the water does not silt up and you can present the product in it's best light with nice yellow gold standing out.  But for me that best light is in the context of working in real field conditions - show what can it really do. Be transparent.

Having said real field conditions I always have a problem with claims like "Retains up to 100% of the fines!" Again I realize for most marketing this is necessary to create a positive subconscious impression of the product.  However there are too many variables and I suggest that it is virtually impossible to "Retains up to 100% of the fines!" even in controlled situations.

If making claims of this nature (and again this is for all manufacturers) then there should be a detailed report available to back up this statement.  What were the scientific parameters of the test, conditions, number of samples with achieved results, known size and shape of gold (or other comparative tracers like penballs or tungsten powder) classifications by weight introduced and recovered, method for double checking accuracy etc etc. 

If you went above and beyond and did something like this (even better if possible to get a third party like a University student or ??) that was totally transparent so you could demonstrate the POSSIBLE field recovery rates that would help to sell your equipment.

Having said all that, I think you have a good product with potential and being open to scrutiny can be a blessing or a curse but you seem to be down to earth and trying to make the best product you can.  If you were able to find a cheaper manufacturing process that could keep the integrity of what you have designed, and be transparent with your claims you could have a real winner on your hands. {-applause-}

I really hope you do well,
Greg

VikingSniper

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Re: NEW processing GOLD PAN on the market.
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2008, 11:42:35 AM »
There is alot of brilliant people on here,I swear we could build a rocket or time machine,some of the most honest
and sincear, knowledgable ansers ever.Greg had a good ideas about making a video using bank run gravel where
we would use the pan.Maybe a video in higher resolution and some close ups of the pyramid pro in action.
Fossicker I like the Life Time Guarantee,I hope no one runs over it with a truck :'( I was thinking of a idea
of making a high speed video footage of the Pyramid Pro Pan in action but its up to you,it might cost to much. 
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Offline The Fossicker

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Re: NEW processing GOLD PAN on the market.
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2008, 09:01:29 PM »
Howdy Greg,
Thanks for the lenghty comments. I wish to reply to all that you have brought up, but it is going to have to wait until next week as I'm off to a gold show in Southern Oregon. By the way, I live in Seattle not Down Under so I'm just down the road from you.
All you mates have a good weekend and try to leave a wee bit of gold for me to find too. Until next week.....

The Fossicker
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