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Author Topic: The fight to open new placer ground in B.C.  (Read 96209 times)

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Offline nite hawk

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Re: The fight to open new placer ground in B.C.
« Reply #20 on: February 26, 2011, 01:32:04 AM »
Today I received a phone call from Ed Collazzi—Minerals branch. ( I have been told that Ed Collazzi took over Rick Conte's old postion) The first words he said to me when I answered the phone, were "What do you want"? He then proceeded to say "I think I know what you want". I replied that 6-1/2 years ago I applied for a placer exemption and have been repeatedly been stonewalled. Ed Colazzi said that Randy Hawse had already said "no" to my placer exemption request. I told him that Randy Hawse doesn’t have the final jurisdiction in the matter. Ed Collazzi seemed to be shocked, and he said , "but he is the minister of state for mines!!!" and he repeated that statement several times.         
I said "I know that, but he does NOT have the final jurisdiction or say in the matter, the gold commissioner has the final say, not Randy Hawse and after 6-1/2 years they will not give my file to her". I also told him that I believed that if it went to the gold commissioner, that someone would try to "high-jack" my application, as someone does not want my application going through. I also said that to put a "no staking" on an area takes about 8 weeks, and my application has taken 6-1/2 years to try and get any action from them!! I also said that placer mining is allowed in the Adams lake area with steep terrain, but not allowed here with alot less steep ground and less chance for erosion problems. He countered that he didn't know anything about the placer mining in the Adams lake area. Ed Collazzi also insisted that this area is a placer reserve, and I said "no it is a placer designated area with a "no staking" on top of it. He repeated that it was a placer reserve about 3 times and I replied about 3 times that it was a placer designated area with a no staking on top of it. I finally told him that this is the only place in B.C. that is like this with a placer designation and a no staking in top of it, and he could not deny that. I told him that before it was placer designated, the science had to have been done, and all the consultations, etc, so it didn't make sense to slap a no staking on top of it. I also told him that according to the Cariboo-Chilcotin land use plan legislation it is supposed to be open to placer mining, and I quoted –   
--placer and hardrock miners will have 100 % access to non protected lands, with the legal definition of protected lands being either an ecological reserve, or a park. I also quoted
-- placer miners shall have 100 % access to placer designated lands, and any placer reserve must be re-examined by the gold commissioners office, and if the reserve is to remain,, technical ( scientific research ) must be presented to justify the reserve . Mr.Collazzi kept insisting that these were "principles" and I kept saying this was LAW not principles. Then he said that the "Mineral act" said that the gold commissioner could put "no staking" reserves on areas, and that is what happened in Horsefly. I said "yes, but that doesn't mean in some cases that it is legal, as one law or the other has to have precedence in a given area."
         He then said that they had had conferences with the different ministries and the MOE didn't want the "no staking" lifted, and the DFO didn't want things to change. I told him that in 2009 the DFO had been notified of my application and they had NOT bothered to reply, and Randy Hawse had said that the DFO had been consulted recently and they didn't want the "no staking" lifted. I told him that MP- Dick Harris's office had sent an e-mail to the DFO several months ago asking them if they had been in contact with Randy Hawse and they have never replied. ( I understand that Dick Harris used to work for the DFO) Randy Hawse also said that the First Nations didn't want anything to change, and I told him that they also had been consulted in 2009. Then Mr.Collazzi said that maybe my fight is with the MOE ( ministry of environment) and I should contact them. I told him that I had written Murray Coell months ago, and never received any reply. I then asked Mr. Collazzi "who has the final say if the "no staking" is lifted--the MOE or the Minerals branch"??. Mr. Collazzi said it was the minerals branch that has the final say if the -"No staking" is lifted or not, not the MOE.       
      I finally asked him if I should talk to a lawyer about this issue or not. There was an extremely long silence on the other end of the phone, and he said "your grievance isn't that bad, is it that you have to talk to a lawyer?" I said " what else can I do"?? "either the cariboo-chilcotin land use law has precedence in this case or the Mineral act has precedence". I said either this area has to be opened up to placer mining or the law has to be changed, or all mining (including hard rock) has to be shut down. ( I do not want to see hard rock shut down either, in this area. It is just that the MOE / minerals branch are not being fair to placer miners not letting them work, saying it is an environmental issue why the placer miners can’t work. Yet hard rock is a lot more environmentally unfriendly than placer mining, and it is allowed here.) I told him that I had tried to work with everyone involved but have not gotten anywhere. The conversation continued for quite some time, a number of issues were discussed and at times it was fairly intense. I did attempt to be polite, but I never backed down either, and finally it ended with Mr. Collazzi saying that he would have to look into the legal aspect of the issue further, and that he would get back to me shortly.
I am wondering if the Minerals branch will try to tell me next that they have consulted with a lawyer on the issue and try to feed me  another  "line", as it appears they have been doing this, saying that they have talked to DFO, etc, when I am not so sure they have talked to them lately at all...
Nite Hawk

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Re: The fight to open new placer ground in B.C.
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2011, 02:19:09 AM »
Nitehawk,

It sounds like this is something that the forum members should be getting behind  you on, the areas that is closed for the Horsefly area is a vast potential placer mining area, several thousand of sq mile of ground.
We should talk, personally give me a call 250-392-7865

In the interest of the rest of the potential placer miners that lurk or belong to the forum, I would ask that maybe take the time to write letters/emails to the new guy (Ed Collazzi—Minerals branch) and slam this issue in their faces, it’s the only way to have the changes made that are needed, all it takes is the time to write a note to these guys, let them know of your personal dissatisfaction with the present situation, the Horsefly/Black Creek/Eureka Peak area is a placer gold bearing area that potentially could be worked profitably and environmentally, so wanting some of you people on the forum to get your fingers busy writing letters..............Guest

check out the area on MTO it is quite a big area.....

Offline Au.79

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Re: The fight to open new placer ground in B.C.
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2011, 10:52:19 AM »
Wow, bureaucracy at it's finest...that is quite a battle Nitehawk, keep up the good work. I am brand new to any mining activity but I would be willing to send a letter off. Maybe someone could type a an appropriate form letter that we can add our email/name etc to? I think more people will send a letter if you don't have to start from scratch writing it.
i think it's ridiculous to have hardrock mining going on but not placer.

Offline Toppossum

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Re: The fight to open new placer ground in B.C.
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2011, 11:18:28 AM »
I agree with Au.79.  A form letter that explains the situation would be helpful and prevent misinformation being accidentally placed in the letter.  As long as all the facts are in the letter the letter can be edited to suit the sender. 

I am all for opening new placer areas even though I will not benefit directly from the area opening up.  More area opening up is good for the local economy.  There will be more people buying gas, food, and equipment in the area. 

Offline GPEX admin

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Re: The fight to open new placer ground in B.C.
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2011, 12:37:39 PM »

I stand to be corrected but what I feel would be the ultimate solution to this current issue and all the rest we’ve been faced with in the past few years, lies not in trying to fruitlessly battle against the feeble excuses being rendered from one evading official to another, is to once and for all ban together as a mass and thrust these matters before the public forum.  Sitting around chatting about them and/or accepting one obvious stall after another is not the solution.  If one questions the power of unified voices, then look at what is going on across the globe today - - as in Libya - - people are not sitting on their posteriors but rather amassing to take the bull by the horn.  The utmost drawback to all of these issues is in accepting the stalls our fine folks in politics wish to thrust upon us.  Thrust upon us as thought we are meager peasants. Peasants who should bow to kiss their feet and feel glorified about the opportunity. We ought not dupe ourselves, for if we, as in capital WE, don’t change it, they surely never will. 

The biggest drawback is, all these fine folks with good and legitimate complaints, just won’t get together on things.  Lord knows I myself have tried many times to get “everybody” to join together for a unified fight, but to no avail, thus, comes my suggestion, get together, prepare all your issues, not just a few, every last one.  Then, firstly, have a little sit-down face-to-face talk with the upper crust in the News Department or the 16 by 9 group at Global TV here in Burnaby, and if that doesn’t work, take it to other investigative news sources.  And fear not exposing the government or whatever office representatives that’s been responsible for all this passing of the buck.

To summate, organize yourselves, and Just Do It !  After all, aren’t you tired of getting walked on?  Squeaks are only squeaks, sounds easily muffled under the sole of a shoe - -SCREAMS on the other hand, echo far a wide, and are indeed noticed.  Your adversaries, I dare say, are nothing short of rapists – for heaven’s sake, Fight and Scream, don’t lie there and take it. 

Otherwise, drill a hole in your pan, hang it on a nail in the old woodshed, and carry on with something new.

That's my fluff for the day......
Somebody said that it couldn't be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That maybe it couldn't but he wouldn't be one
Who'd say so until he had tried.

Offline PilgrimsCastleGold

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Re: The fight to open new placer ground in B.C.
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2011, 03:48:29 PM »

I stand to be corrected but what I feel would be the ultimate solution to this current issue and all the rest we’ve been faced with in the past few years, lies not in trying to fruitlessly battle against the feeble excuses being rendered from one evading official to another, is to once and for all ban together as a mass and thrust these matters before the public forum.  Sitting around chatting about them and/or accepting one obvious stall after another is not the solution.  If one questions the power of unified voices, then look at what is going on across the globe today - - as in Libya - - people are not sitting on their posteriors but rather amassing to take the bull by the horn.  The utmost drawback to all of these issues is in accepting the stalls our fine folks in politics wish to thrust upon us.  Thrust upon us as thought we are meager peasants. Peasants who should bow to kiss their feet and feel glorified about the opportunity. We ought not dupe ourselves, for if we, as in capital WE, don’t change it, they surely never will.  

The biggest drawback is, all these fine folks with good and legitimate complaints, just won’t get together on things.  Lord knows I myself have tried many times to get “everybody” to join together for a unified fight, but to no avail, thus, comes my suggestion, get together, prepare all your issues, not just a few, every last one.  Then, firstly, have a little sit-down face-to-face talk with the upper crust in the News Department or the 16 by 9 group at Global TV here in Burnaby, and if that doesn’t work, take it to other investigative news sources.  And fear not exposing the government or whatever office representatives that’s been responsible for all this passing of the buck.

To summate, organize yourselves, and Just Do It !  After all, aren’t you tired of getting walked on?  Squeaks are only squeaks, sounds easily muffled under the sole of a shoe - -SCREAMS on the other hand, echo far a wide, and are indeed noticed.  Your adversaries, I dare say, are nothing short of rapists – for heaven’s sake, Fight and Scream, don’t lie there and take it.  

Otherwise, drill a hole in your pan, hang it on a nail in the old woodshed, and carry on with something new.

That's my fluff for the day......


Greetings to those on this thread trying to right the current wrongs within our government ministries.

I just finished reading the whole thread and given the endless run-arounds that NiteHawk has experienced over the past 6 years or so I would have to concur with GPEX Admin's suggestion that we take all these individual fingers that have been pointed and wagged at the bureaucrats for years now and clench them firmly together into a solid, rock-hard advocacy fist that we can raise up high in the air and demand that government pay attention to.

Not sure what the protocol is here but I would like to post (with due credits) this thread on the new Cariboo Mining Association website, so that our members, including those not necessarily affiliated with this forum, might be able to read it. Possible the CMA might just be able to fit the bill in terms of acting as a bone fide organization to spearhead the issues that NiteHawk and others are trying to get answers to from the various government commissars.

I can be reached privately at [email protected]

Arthur Topham
CMA Webadmin

Offline Guest

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Re: The fight to open new placer ground in B.C.
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2011, 04:00:07 PM »
Glad to see you found the thread Art, now hoping that the CMA will get involved and help out with these isssues that pertain to us all........Guest

Offline GPEX admin

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Re: The fight to open new placer ground in B.C.
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2011, 05:49:28 PM »
Quote
Glad to see you found the thread Art, now hoping that the CMA will get involved and help out with these isssues that pertain to us all........Guest

Eric…

I regret you had not been equally as much on board on other issues when presented during months gone by.  Glad to see your ginger now fired up.
Somebody said that it couldn't be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That maybe it couldn't but he wouldn't be one
Who'd say so until he had tried.

Offline GPEX admin

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Re: The fight to open new placer ground in B.C.
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2011, 05:51:06 PM »
Hello Art

In regard to your suggestion to sway matters over to the CMA, I’m not quite sure if such would be the most appropriate designation for overall representation.  In the past it seems their efforts have been easily overridden by government affiliations they’ve entertained at their various meetings and the like.  Fundamentally they’ve gained no ground and possibly lost some through their talks with some of the more important players.  In the past we ourselves have not had great relations coming from those administrating the Cariboo Forum, in fact we’ve found such quite unsavory.  I personally don’t consider the Cariboo Forum a rival in any sense of speaking, so any opposition I might present in regard to your proposal ought not be considered a hostility, but rather an avoidance for justified reasoning.  

A figure-head is not what is needed, not the Cariboo Association, not GPEX or the CPF or any other identifiable organization, but rather the members here, and from wherever else they may wish to come, including those from the Cariboo group, would be best to form a unified body bearing independent recognition, where under they may unite as one to formulate issues requiring attention.  Thence send them forth with thunderous demand that will openly (before the public) force the government into getting off their butts and taking action to remedy matters to  the better interest of those operating within the industry.  I feel this would be the best avenue to pursue.

Regarding the link you’ve posted, our policy here is to avoid posting same for any organizations as such.  Thus, I will be removing same.  If you wish to notify Cariboo Forum (or Association) members of a pending ‘independent’ movement, all such would fall within permissible parameters, but I would be in reserve toward permitting the copy of this thread to be posted elsewhere. And I somewhat disagree with your supple usage of what is and what isn't ‘bona fide.

In that such an group would require a place of communication, and that our membership far exceeds that of the Cariboo’s, and that we do hold a broad global coverage, we’d then find no problem if such individuals wished to use a set aside sector of this Forum’s pages for their endeavor.  As long as it’s ethical, no foul or swear words are used, and it is non-discriminating or presenting an outright defamation of character, such a group would be welcome to meet here.  This thread, and several others of the past that have been in opposition to government’s dictatorship, then serving as a launching point.

I trust this to be the most satisfactory measure and direction.
Somebody said that it couldn't be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That maybe it couldn't but he wouldn't be one
Who'd say so until he had tried.

Offline Guest

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Re: The fight to open new placer ground in B.C.
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2011, 06:57:00 PM »
Okay Larry to clarify one thing, the Cariboo Mining Association and the Cariboo Gold Mining Forum are two total different things, the association I support, the forum is owned by Jim Gibson and he and that forum I do not support, for my own reasons of conflit with the owner,

That said, I will say that having some type of recognized group/association backing a cause is the thing to do...............Guest

This said, the Cariboo Mining Association had better get on board and support this oppurtuynity that is out in the open for the betterment of placer miners, considering that the Horsefly district is part of the Cariboo, Chris Winters, know yer a member of the forum as well as being the President of the Assoc. time to step forward and take the bull by the horns..