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Author Topic: Who’s That Perpetrator ?  (Read 4033 times)

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Offline GPEX admin

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  • Larry
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Who’s That Perpetrator ?
« on: June 23, 2010, 01:49:29 PM »

It’s a sheer pain in the - - - (well, you know where) for taking all the time and effort required for doing up a work report for your placer property.  Don’t bother, for it’s not required.  They don’t need it, nor use it in any capacity.  Simply stake it, then when the anniversary date comes calling, fast-track it, just pay it forward - - no report necessary.  That’s keeping with the ‘in-crowd’ now isn’t it?

By the clock on the wall, it’s story-telling time, again, so gather around the campfire.

Once upon a time...............

From my own personal observation, I feel it only fitting to nominate as System Abuser of the Year - - Monsieur Undisclosed (no, I won’t go to that depth, but I’m sure little effort on your part and you can easily zero in).  Dude, shall we call him – had, quite some time back, captured my attention through his management model of a property located in the general vicinity of one I was researching for another party.  At that time I found it rather fascinating how this certain said individual kept advancing his claim forward - - no, no work whatsoever had been done, just a simple ‘bump it ahead’ through payment in lieu of work.  Yes, I’ve made reference of him before - - he’s not in the game to work properties, just simply amass them to flip.  Without digging back into past posts, seems this individual had (up to that point of time) paid this certain claim forward, maybe thirty odd times - - a phenomenal allowance extended under the auspice of BC Mineral Titles Administrators.  Well, I thought that was fairly bad, but lo and behold, I just happened to be checking an expiry date the other day and noticed this same old claim holder was still up to his antics on such same old claim - - paying it forward by maybe two or three days or so at a time.  Being as the number of transactions were getting far too many to keep track of via a visual count, I copied them over to my trusty numbers assistant, Word Doc, for rendering an accurate tally.  Prepare yourself now, for this is not for the faint at heart, this ‘one singular claim’ has now been paid forward, would you believe - - none less than 93 times.  Yup, you read that right, 93 !!  And that’s over the past 11 months.  At the current rate, by the time it hits a year, it’ll be a hundred or more.  First payment-forward being made on July 20, 2009.   WOAH - WOAH - WOAH now !  Now what’s wrong with this whole scene ?   In the most insane capacity of mind, how could this ever be, where a person holding a property that’s roadside-accessible year round,  not perform the required minimum of 6 ½ man hours of work, over a full year’s period ?   Seems I hear mur murs out there, could it be some hold the same wonders as I ?

Okay, that is but only one bombshell - - stog that campfire Zeek, there’s still more to this yarn.  On that latest said day of transaction, same Dude had a whopping 46 others properties in the listing that were likewise being paid forward, a few days at a time.  One mineral property, and 45 other placer properties.  The scary thing is, on other subsequent dates (groups staggered of course, to avoid raising suspicion or cause controversy), there were also a whole slew more of other properties likewise being paid forward. 


Now, for anyone that’s been into it for a while, they too may have paid the odd claim forward for a year or whatever number of months it might have been until they could re-visit the property.  So then, what’s the first thing that comes to mind?  Nuisance Staking, maybe?   I think that is a rather unjust label to place - - for, to me, this is a classical example of, a Staking Abuser !!

True enough, I myself have had a fair number of properties (nowhere near Dude’s numbers, though) - - sold a few and still have a few left.  However, I can only recall a few instances where work was unable to be performed and the claim had to be paid forward, for extenuating circumstances.  But hey, maybe I’m the fool here - - maybe I should just go stake anything and everything, with no rhyme nor reason, just as long as it can be shadowed with useless information – then say to heck with the reports, for like I said, they’re a pure pain in the - - - (oops, there I go again, pain in the you know what).  Why concern - - the Ministry surely doesn’t?  I oft times wonder, what would it take for Gov Administrators to get off their tush – a whoopy cushion?  Maybe some nitro?  For they only seem to move if there’s some big advantage in it for themselves.

I guess it all boils down to what we ourselves are prepared to do, toward pushing Mineral Title Administrators to the front lines to bring about ‘FAIR’ resolution.  But it takes you, your conviction and your fortitude.   One can’t do it alone, nor two, ten or sixty, it can only be effected through the voices of the masses.  How many can say, with clear conscience, that you’ve stepped to the plate to do all which is possible, toward changing this ludicrous waywardness of those within BC’s Mineral Property Management System?   So, who’s the actual perpetrators – Dudes like that or those too relaxed behind rule-making?

All it takes is a white-hot determination and but such a very few short minutes out of one’s life, now and again, to climb aboard and be heard.  It all depends on you !   To set in silence, one then must content to being little more than a ‘political contributor.’

While you’re up at the plate, swing a triple bat - - one for tighter regs safeguarding against staking abuse, one for your opposition toward the proposed tenure fee hikes, and, the third, in opposition of an AME take-over of mineral titles administration and its coffer.

Somebody said that it couldn't be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That maybe it couldn't but he wouldn't be one
Who'd say so until he had tried.

Offline gnome

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Re: Who’s That Perpetrator ?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2010, 05:13:35 PM »
Larry I have my FMC do I have to make a claim in order to work a piece of crown land with hand tools and Maybe a highbanker that is not claimed

Offline GPEX admin

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Re: Who’s That Perpetrator ?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2010, 06:13:46 PM »

(For those new miners, the opening paragraph was said with great sarcasm,  mad@!# and is not the right road to travel)  <-NO_>


gnome

Without having a claim, a person is only permitted to use a pan and shovel, but still cannot pan on another person's claim, and requires permission to cross privately held land.  However, according to the letter of the Regulations, in all actuality, having a FMC disqualifies you for 'recreational panning.'  But if not on another person's claim, I seriously doubt you will find any MTO enforcers out of their offices.

Your best bet is to either stake or purchase a property, then you don't have any concerns and can focus on developing your property, accordingly.  If purchasing, do your due diligence.  Whatever you use beyond normal panning, update yourself how the Regulations may apply, which also includes DFO concerns.  There's a lot of info on the site and within posts.... simply do a search to find the articles of interest.

All the best to you......  :)
Somebody said that it couldn't be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That maybe it couldn't but he wouldn't be one
Who'd say so until he had tried.

Offline garnetsootheran

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Re: Who’s That Perpetrator ?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2010, 07:12:32 PM »
I too have run across a few paper stakers - some of which are holding hundreds of properties. I think they are like lottery junkies, hoping that someone will cough up big bucks for their labor.

I am sure that the government doesn't mind as money is money whether it comes in a dime at a time or a hundred at a time.

I have spoken to the local claims inspector and the subject did come up. Apparently the workers on the ground talk about this issue from time to time but they are just the people administering the rules and they can't do anything about it.

Personally I have been tempted to "section 40" someone to bring this to a head. I believe that if a case could be made and won over holding property by the 'day' then the government may react to the decision and perhaps make the practice go away.

"" 40 (1) An interested person, or an employee of the ministry charged with the
"" administration of this Act, may make a complaint to the chief gold commissioner that
"" (a) a claim has been located or recorded contrary to this Act or the regulations,
"" (b) a person has knowingly made a false statement or report under section 29, 30
"" or 33, or
"" [b](c) a claim has been acquired or held for purposes other than a mining activity[/b].


Sadly I have enough properties at present that require my attention and I can not see myself going that route at this time. I wonder if there is anybody out there who would take the $200 challenge. At worst you loose, at best you get your own claim - which if you researched right could be a primo piece of ground.

Of course a person has to be careful what they wish for.

I would like to see the Yukon model adopted where you work it or you loose it - simple.

One other note: Larry you made the statement - "However, according to the letter of the Regulations, in all actuality, having a FMC disqualifies you for 'recreational panning."

I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. The Act says:

Recreational hand panning
9 (1) Subject to subsection (2), a person who is not a free miner may hand pan for
recreation purposes.
(2) A person must not hand pan on a valid mineral title unless the person receives
permission from the recorded holder of the mineral title.


Reading (1) it does not say that a free miner may not recreationally pan. I read it to say that you do not need an FMC to recreationally pan. My humble opinion. I recreationally pan on many occasions.

Offline gnome

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Re: Who’s That Perpetrator ?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2010, 06:27:02 PM »
thanks guys I really appreciate your input

Offline GPEX admin

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Re: Who’s That Perpetrator ?
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2010, 07:46:17 AM »
Per my above on the claims thing........

Jeeeesh, I thought I was bad with the 200 odd claims I’ve held since 2003.  And had it not been for Dave and the boys, and others we’ve taken on for certain projects, the work could never have gotten completed.  Then, between the mountains of paperwork, never-ending work reports and the like, not to mention the ongoing research, sample evaluations, the ridiculous expenditures, plus sacrificing 18 or so hours a day, seven days a week, and still only being able to devote the bare-bones minimum to keeping things active, I shutter to think if I were to have gone into it fulltime.  Ha ha!

However, either I’m growing older than I think, or there’s supermen out there far greater than I.  Far far greater!  For I happened into MTO on a property search, and where I thought the former mentioned claim holder far exceeded me, whereas I myself couldn’t fathom where one could ever find enough hours in a year to even complete the work reports, not to mention do a scratch of work, I’ve found a whole new Superman title holder.  I mean like, this tenure holder takes title of the Granddaddy of all times.  From back in 2002 to 2005, the grand total of three legacy claims were held, then came MTOnline, and five and a half years later, Buddyrho has registered far (far) in excess of (take a breath of air now, for you’re going to need it) far in excess of 4,200 claims.  GULP !  Gosh, I now feel like a blushing baby still in diapers.  :-[

Anyhow, let’s not let that figure get carried away, as I did mention it was over five and a half years.  Which of course, claims come and claims go.  So being the curious cat I apparently is, I thought I’d check things a little closer, and downloaded the Excel sheet for it.  And not being the Excel Wizard I suppose I should be, for even finding the slider bar to view past the first page, nor the where-with-all knowledge on how to eliminate the inactive claims, so, I then used my cunning and copied them over to a Word Doc, where I’ve mastered my fumbling around blindly and ability to delete.  There, I can even implement the number count thingy.  So, there I commenced, extracting the abandoned, forfeited and amalgamated ones, to thence deliver the grand total of currently active properties.  Oh how they thinned out, leaving a scrawny total of, only twenty-nine shades shy of 1,300.   Yup, one three zero zero.  Much much better, I might add.   <-shock_> <-hypnotized->  <-hypnotized->  [^Crazy!#]   Hey!   <-hypnotized->

 <-hypnotized-> Gracious, whatsamatter ?  - - seems these old eyes are kind stuck in motion  <-hypnotized-> - - help!  Does anyone have an antidote?  Must just be my old age, for they’re running wild.  But hey, how on earth can we pass judgment on another, opinion maybe, but not judgment, just because he wears a full-body uniform of blue, with flashes of yellow and red.  In comparing myself, this individual has got attributes I could only dream for, for having the ability to somehow create a 156 hour day for himself, x7x365, and, for writing reports 6 ½ times faster than I can even think.

Oh, this boggles my mind so, and here returns those sharp little pains darting back and forth within my skull.  I be thinking I need a little lay-down, as obviously this whole numbers affair has been a little too strenuous on an old coot's mind like mine.

Zzzzzzzz
Somebody said that it couldn't be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That maybe it couldn't but he wouldn't be one
Who'd say so until he had tried.

honeyman76

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Re: Who’s That Perpetrator ?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2010, 10:34:58 AM »
24 hours in a day multiplied by 365 days per year=8760 hours in a year. MTO has certain requirements on how many hours must be worked in order to qualify to keep your claim in leu of payment (I am unable to find said regulation off hand). For arguments sake, lets suppose someone has 1300 placer tenures and one is required to work 8 hours annually on said claim.

1300 tenures * 8hrs= 10,400 hours. So, a person can see that there is not enough time in the year to hold all claims without having to pay in leu. IN fact, this person is short 1640 hours or 68 days. I can't imagine what his/her bill is every year to keep these claims. Could there be fraud involved here? What if he/she claims to have done work, when its impossible, but files false reports anywyas??/?  <-thinking-> <-thinking-> <-thinking-> <-thinking-> Very suspicious!


Offline GPEX admin

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Re: Who’s That Perpetrator ?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2010, 01:48:49 PM »

'Tis a local day for me.... in and out.  While I'm in.....


Well, just by guess work, without spending the next two days sorting through all such to determine exact figures, I’ll try to guesstimate as close as I think might be the actual.

So as best I can recall for actual claim sizes, and though there were quite a number with bunches of cells, yet within the bulk were a fair number of 2’s and 3’s, I will levy an average size of say three cells per claim to play super-safe.  And I think being generous in saying, all but a few are mineral, so I’ll tally all at mineral calculations for the sake of easy math.  And it currently active properties is actually 1271, not 1300 as rounded off.

So, 1271 x 3 cells = 3813 cells to be prospected, or, averaging at 20 hectares per cell then = 76,260 hectares for prospecting for the year.  Otherwise equated and more simply put, 1271 claims divided by 365 days = 3.48 claims to be prospected every day.  3.48 claims x 60 hectares (3 cells) = 208.8 hectares per day requiring prospecting/evaluation. 

Then, required work for that @ $4 per hectare = $835+ of total work equivalency for each of the 365 days.  Taking other allowances into consideration, labor requirement would then be no less than $709 worth per day.  Three guys going strong for a 10 ¼ hour day would do that (for every day for the year).  They would however, have to have somebody delivering take-out meals.

Awe – but that too means 3 ½ work reports must also be done up, each and every day.  My most very very very best day ever, with the most simplified of reports, I did do 3 a day a couple of times, but generally one to one and half would be good for a ‘full’ day of working on them.

So bringing all things into reasonable scope, Superman has to have at least six guys in the field, 365, then have two other persons alongside of him, helping with the draft of work reports.  Three computers just a humming.  And logically another person somewhere in the mix for evaluating and processing each day’s samples that were taken.  And bear in mind, all this for the bare-bones minimum requirement.  Jeeesh, renewal fees alone would work out to over $30k annually.  Can’t be a married man, unless wifie too is part of the geological theme - - can’t see most women contending with all that.  Irrelevant though.

Quite possibly it is I who am missing the connection, here, for this might very well be one of the provinces bigger operations - - even bigger than Northgate with the Kemess One and Kemess Two gold mining operations.

Not that it can’t be done, but surely a hectic life no matter which way one looks at it.  And no stopping to smell the roses.  So, I’ll surely take my hat off each time I see Superman flashing by, for it is well deserving.

Meanwhile, I’ll just remain content playing around in my own wittle sandbox.  But hey, I’ve been in the process of downsizing my portfolio for some time now, and slowly achieving my goal, one at a time, while also making a few other folks rather happy.

So, in Foot Note regarding the portfolio of Superdude, in that such other portfolio is added to daily, including yesterday, I just did a quick tenure history search to see if one of the latest acquisitions was a claim that was just forfeited or abandoned on the date prior, and sure enough, the one snatched up, was.  Seems like one massive filing plan for daily expiring claims.

One must draw their own conclusion.

And it's clear that Superman has a target on his forehead by the good folks over at AME, as well.

So - - get rhythm - - and as the song lyrics goes:
  With clowns to the left of me (‘AME’), and jokers to my right (heavy stakers)
  Here I am, stuck in the middle with you

And that’s the story of that, folks!

PS - - don't think I ever want to grow up, for that big people's world up there is surely not what it's cracked up to be.
Somebody said that it couldn't be done
But he with a chuckle replied
That maybe it couldn't but he wouldn't be one
Who'd say so until he had tried.

honeyman76

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Re: Who’s That Perpetrator ?
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2010, 02:12:16 PM »

'Tis a local day for me.... in and out.  While I'm in.....


Well, just by guess work, without spending the next two days sorting through all such to determine exact figures, I’ll try to guesstimate as close as I think might be the actual.

So as best I can recall for actual claim sizes, and though there were quite a number with bunches of cells, yet within the bulk were a fair number of 2’s and 3’s, I will levy an average size of say three cells per claim to play super-safe.  And I think being generous in saying, all but a few are mineral, so I’ll tally all at mineral calculations for the sake of easy math.  And it currently active properties is actually 1271, not 1300 as rounded off.

So, 1271 x 3 cells = 3813 cells to be prospected, or, averaging at 20 hectares per cell then = 76,260 hectares for prospecting for the year.  Otherwise equated and more simply put, 1271 claims divided by 365 days = 3.48 claims to be prospected every day.  3.48 claims x 60 hectares (3 cells) = 208.8 hectares per day requiring prospecting/evaluation. 

Then, required work for that @ $4 per hectare = $835+ of total work equivalency for each of the 365 days.  Taking other allowances into consideration, labor requirement would then be no less than $709 worth per day.  Three guys going strong for a 10 ¼ hour day would do that (for every day for the year).  They would however, have to have somebody delivering take-out meals.

Awe – but that too means 3 ½ work reports must also be done up, each and every day.  My most very very very best day ever, with the most simplified of reports, I did do 3 a day a couple of times, but generally one to one and half would be good for a ‘full’ day of working on them.

So bringing all things into reasonable scope, Superman has to have at least six guys in the field, 365, then have two other persons alongside of him, helping with the draft of work reports.  Three computers just a humming.  And logically another person somewhere in the mix for evaluating and processing each day’s samples that were taken.  And bear in mind, all this for the bare-bones minimum requirement.  Jeeesh, renewal fees alone would work out to over $30k annually.  Can’t be a married man, unless wifie too is part of the geological theme - - can’t see most women contending with all that.  Irrelevant though.

Quite possibly it is I who am missing the connection, here, for this might very well be one of the provinces bigger operations - - even bigger than Northgate with the Kemess One and Kemess Two gold mining operations.

Not that it can’t be done, but surely a hectic life no matter which way one looks at it.  And no stopping to smell the roses.  So, I’ll surely take my hat off each time I see Superman flashing by, for it is well deserving.

Meanwhile, I’ll just remain content playing around in my own wittle sandbox.  But hey, I’ve been in the process of downsizing my portfolio for some time now, and slowly achieving my goal, one at a time, while also making a few other folks rather happy.

So, in Foot Note regarding the portfolio of Superdude, in that such other portfolio is added to daily, including yesterday, I just did a quick tenure history search to see if one of the latest acquisitions was a claim that was just forfeited or abandoned on the date prior, and sure enough, the one snatched up, was.  Seems like one massive filing plan for daily expiring claims.

One must draw their own conclusion.

And it's clear that Superman has a target on his forehead by the good folks over at AME, as well.

So - - get rhythm - - and as the song lyrics goes:
  With clowns to the left of me (‘AME’), and jokers to my right (heavy stakers)
  Here I am, stuck in the middle with you

And that’s the story of that, folks!

PS - - don't think I ever want to grow up, for that big people's world up there is surely not what it's cracked up to be.



I almost had tears running down my eyes reading your post Larry. Very entertaining in deed.... Too bad super dude is so materialistic. What a waste of life and talent!

 


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