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Author Topic: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation  (Read 30624 times)

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Offline Mad Machinist

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2011, 07:59:12 AM »
Bob,

 Funny thing about global warming is the fact that no one wants to include the fact that the Vikings were growing grapes in Greenland in the 1400's, we were in a mini ice age during the 1800's, and the fact that fossils are showing that the CO2 levels during the dino periods were 3000% higher that they are now. How else did those plants get so damn big?

 The biggest part of the problem is that everyone is thinking mining is still stuck in the 1800's and do not take into effect the advancements in technology used to minimize the impacts of mining. People need to understand that if it isn't grown then it is mined.

 Ban mining and let the idiots freeze to death in the dark.
Ban mining and let the idiots freeze to death in the dark.

Offline buckshotbob

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #41 on: November 23, 2011, 05:52:17 AM »
  Silverfox  what i meant is because of old mining practices there is tons of residual mercyury still travelling down the creeks out the so getting some in your pans isn,t uncommon in certain areas

Offline MadKate

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #42 on: November 23, 2011, 10:32:26 AM »
I know several of the streams and rivers across the gold belt in Georgia have pools of mercury sitting in bands where the old "dams" used to be.  Dredgers have come in in the past and removed some, but not all and since there has been a ban on dredging in some of these locations, the mercury pools in the low spots and holes. 

I agree that old mining practices have made a mess of some things that were common and acceptable practices in the past, but with the modern tech that is available, miners have actually improved conditions because they pick it all up.  Lead and mercury is now being removed from the waterways...  If we could clean up the soil, we'd be highly sought after... Just not so sure I want to handle the contaminants of an EPA superfund site.   <-hypnotized->  :-*

I guess we really need to show the powers that be that we ain't the miners of that era but the new, improved and ecologically friendly miner of the future.  ::)  We all know how long that will take to convincing the bureaucrats that we are not the bad guys here... <-waiting->

Golddigger Greg

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #43 on: November 23, 2011, 05:05:43 PM »
Right you are Kate! <-good_> Maybe offering remedial services to the government that remove all those nasty heavy elements from the streambed... <-thinking-> How could the envirionutz be against that? [&whistle#]
Edit: Not all the mercury that ends up in the streambed was put there by man either, mother nature has placed a lot of it herself.

Offline Mad Machinist

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2011, 06:47:11 PM »
 THe problem with offering these services is the fact that mercury will from an amalgam with most precious metals. So in recovering these environmental hazards, you can actually make a very good living wothout their interference. And that is the problem.

 This very thing has been happeneing in California and Oregon. The State EPA departments actually set up collection points at miner's festivals to collect mercury. And it was becoming very successful. THe dredgers recovered the precious metals and turned the remaining mercury in so it wasn't contaminating the environment anymore. So in the infinite idiocy of our elected officials they banned dredging by small miners nder the guise of the mercury contaminating the environment by being stirred up by the dredgers. And then they made up a huge gov't program to use massive dredging platforms to remove the mercury from the rivers, and all the precious metals in the amalgams.

Ban mining and let the idiots freeze to death in the dark.

Golddigger Greg

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2011, 07:02:47 PM »
 <-d'oh-> Shoulda known it's OK for them to do and illegal for us! What was I thinking? [^Crazy!#]
 mad@!#

Offline Mad Machinist

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2011, 08:40:24 AM »
Greg,

 Now you understand why unemployment is so high. Our dear Gov't orgs don't care one whit about us, only lining their pockets.

 Small mines are the way forward, smaller footprints equal smaller hazards. Smaller mines equal less to reclaim. We are trying to get a small miner's org started here to give us a voice. Part of what we want to do is give some basic training on hardrockin'. With the price of metals being what they are, lots of new blood is coming into the industry and that increases the accident rate which is being used to drive the closure of these small mines.
 
 The biggest problem is what i said before. There is very little equipment available to the small miner. So improvisations are made, some of them end up being fatal.  Take a look at how many small miner's actually bolted the back or the ribs. Granted they didn't have the tech we have now, but that is being used to shut us out. With recent advancements, you no longer need a bolter to install bolts. Alot of the new bolts can be installed with a jack leg.

 How many small mines can afford an underground loader? So again, improvisations are made. I've seen alot of off the wall things used. I know a guy near here who is using a Kubota tractor underground WITHOUT any kind of ventilation or a CO alarm. The air monitor I were at all times when I'm underground went ballistic there. CO levels were well past the safe limits.

Ban mining and let the idiots freeze to death in the dark.

Offline MadKate

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2011, 05:35:17 PM »
And every state has it's own regulations and mystical interpreters of vapors with regards to those regulations.  <-hypnotized->

Anyone get a chance to talk to the Oracle of Delphi lately?   ???  With the wording of some of these rules and regs, it's a wonder we don't have a temple to the bureaucratic god of mining complete with an entourage of priests and priestesses burning censers of incense, making offerings in red tape and gallons of ink...  :o

Oh wait... That was the Department of Environmental Services Surface Mining Permits office.  ::)  Sorry guys... My bad.   :-[

Offline Mad Machinist

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #48 on: November 26, 2011, 08:29:33 AM »
Kate,

 While I was out and about last night, I ran into one of the State Mine Inspectors I know. We were talking about alot of issues between shots of Jack and this is what we come up with. Most of the State Offices have been taken over by the eco nazis and they want to ban mining completely. Another problem is the fact that there are no hard and fast rules to follow. They kinda make it up as they go along.

 I've been a machinist in many differnet mines for a long time now and I've seen one inspector give kudos on the way something was done and the next inspector start throwing around S&S citations for the same method.

 Another problem in the fact that most of the mining giants now support the eco nazis. They buy them off with big donations so they leave tham alone. This is what I am dealing with right now. This area has been cored down to 500 feet along a 3000 foot line and is still hitting chlorargyrite ore. This is shaping up to be a MAJOR strike. And this is why I am having so many problems. All the mining giants have offered to buy is out for a mere pittance of what this is worth. We refused and now the problems begin.

 

 
Ban mining and let the idiots freeze to death in the dark.

Offline MadKate

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #49 on: November 26, 2011, 11:12:19 AM »
And that is the crux of the problem.  Standardization of rules and regs.

With mine inspectors going by guidelines and making their seat-of-the-pants interpretations of those guidelines, I'm surprised we don't have more "cowboys" out there traipsing willy-nilly through mining sites taking their cut from the bigwig companies and shutting down the small operators so the bigwigs can move in and take over...

Clearly a case of cronyism and nepotism.  Wink Wink. Nudge Nudge.  Bob's yer uncle, Shake Shake.  Then there is the discreet passing of the unmarked envelope containing printed material passed off as currency of the Crown (for Canada) or that garbage they say is legal tender and backed by a lot of hot air, lies, and little much more here in the States.

 mad@!# {-censored-} {-censored-} {-censored-} ^#! ^#! ^#! {-censored-} <-frustrated->

I, for one, would love to see us return to Constitutional tender.  In God we trust, everyone else pays in gold. Problem with that is the banks have convinced us that money must make money so that is why we have interest rates... That's called usury and it is against Biblical Law.  I have little use for banks any more and I don't keep much money in one.  It's cash and carry...   <-sealed_>

Dag... Sorry... I got carried away on that and totally wandered off on a tangent.   :-[

Back to the subject. 

We as miners, hobbyists and small scale, need to band together as a united group.  I'm not talking about joining some group and paying dues so you can wander around their picked over claim sites.  I'm talking with serious political pull and lobbyists to fight for us (like the NRA does for gun owners) and get things moving to protect our rights and get a standardized set of rules (not guidelines) for mining on the smaller scale that can be used in all 50 states, territories, commonwealths and whatever else we got. 

I realize this is a Canadian based forum and they got a mess of rules too... But I don't know Canadian law and when it comes to mining in the US, I barely scratch the surface with understanding the rules in my own state...  There is something we should be able to do about this.

I'm gonna stop now and go hide under my tarp and see if I can play with a few pounds of tailings before I go volunteering myself for something I have no idea how to approach and deal with.

 


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