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Author Topic: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation  (Read 31399 times)

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ClickTheYellowChick

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2009, 11:30:10 AM »
Larry, and all,

I'm EXCITED about the energy this thread is generating.  I've got to leave town here in a few and will return later.
However, I wanted to chime in and remind all that we are indeed PRAGMATICALLY discussing the TWO LEVELS of M&P operations that haven't scaled up into small scale mining operation(s).

Level 1:  Below Radar   [&whistle#]
Level 2:  All permits in hand, not afraid of the radar/red-tape/bureaucracy   <~ShOcK~>

We need to be clear about which level we are addressing, okay?

I'll have more to share about this practical M&P biz model vs. SSM model upon my return. 

Oh, and before I forget, I've heard back from my Nova Scotia M&P seller.  What an EXCITING opportunity for SSM this is for someone, perhaps even here on this forum???  I know I'm not going to suddenly move to N.S., so don't look my direction.  <-laugh->

Later, all.


ClickTheYellowChick

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2009, 11:14:43 AM »
Golly, Larry, Geo-guys, etc.,

While I haven't forgotten my promise to return and share more about the Nova Scotia opportunity for SSMng, etc.,...I've been cogitating on this Dexpan thread portion.

Would you scientific types be able to come up with something with a greater co-effecient of expansion than the amphorus silica used in Dexpan?

Seems to me to expand upon that line of thought (pun intended lol!!!@* ) that would be the ticket to more "bangless for the buck," that I gathered Larry was hoping for.  Yes?   No?   <-thinking->

Offline GollyMrScience

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2009, 04:28:02 PM »
Well darn it! I sent a very detailed reply to this and it has gone AWOL on me!
Oh well - here is the condensed version.

Here are some study materials for anyone interested.

 There are lots of expanding mixes but most dont have the oomph to apply enough hyraulic force to fracture rock.

Several mechanical systems out there that use an expanding tube and one that as far as I know is still in development that uses foam injected under pressure. The foam does not expand it just transfers the force from pressurized system more efficiently.

Here is a link to a wiki referrence on non explosive demolition agents - will pass your way and study for myself later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-explosive_demolition_agents

I saw a demo of a mechanical expansion system that appeared to be based on rock bolt technology.

The expansion systems have not caught on with most mining because blasting  is still cheap for the energy and money put into it. Also these non explosive systems cannot lift and heave material or break away a working face like explosives can. Still, when used in their right place they are real handy.

If you wanted to break boulders you have a "semi" explosive system that uses something that looks like a shotgun shell. You drill a hole into the boulder from the top and then fill it with water. A shell holder device is placed into the mouth of the hole and the operator uses a lanyard to pull the firing pin. When the shotgun shell goes off it compresses the water and the hydraulic pressure goes out in a wedging action to blast the rock apart. No fumes or explosives per se and no blasters ticket required.

A couple of systems of that type. Here is a link to one of them
Boulder Buster: Solution for Breaking Rock, Boulders & Concrete

Here is the same product but different video and a more sophisticated accent.

::Boulder Buster::

Ok more later but I am sending this before it goes away on me too.
What the heck - lets just keep mixin' stuff together till it blows up or smells REALLY bad!

Offline pasty

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2009, 09:27:13 AM »
Hi, just 2bits worth, 1. YOU HAVE TO GET THE BLESSING FROM THE mine INSPECTORS,
 2, YOU HAVE TO GET A HUNDRED AND ONE PERMITS
 I would take a few samples and take them to a mining engineer ( after you have staked the ground ) and get his blessings . Or have a assay done on the sample . After said and done go to a large company with your samples and report . Good luck.

Offline 29prospector

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2009, 11:25:32 AM »
Larry,
To add to the list:

Back Pack
- white glue
- sticky paper
- loop or pocket magnifier
- Sample bags (6)
- Small drawing Pad
-Pencils

Tool Shed (? Truck Bed)
-Small shovel
- small pick
-rock hammer
-small hand crusher
- 20-30 mesh small classifer
-10-14" pan.

When I first started out with my father I was 6 years old. The first thing he taught me was once an area is decided upon you get apox. 1/2 to 1 mile away from the hill or mountain if possible. Climb to a height that you can see most of the area of interest and draw it out on the sctech pad. Using a pair of binoculars study the rock formations, ridges, washes first. Next notice the different colors of the formations. This process may take a month or 2 but will save many wastefull days looking around.
Once you have pinned down an area, go into it and begin doing the ground work. If viens are found, take the first 6" off if possible and than gather samples ever 5-10' along the vien. Once back to your truck, hand crush the rock till you have about 3/2 cup of material. Pan this out to see if there is any color. If you have color, that is more than a couple fine specks, make a note of each panning.
If the returns in your pans are good, go back and pull4-6 10 pounds samples out. Thake them home, break them up into smaller pieces, combine all the material together and split it 4 ways. Take a small hand sample from each pile and make 4 new piles. Keep two for your self and sent the other 2 out to 2 differents for assay. Once the reports come back in you can determine your plan of operation.
After hard mining and prospecting for 52 years, I've seen small operations make a good living. The number one thing to remember is pay as you go. It starts out slow but gains speed as you progress. I'm strictly placer mining now. An accident in 1999 crushed both kness and fractured L-3. 2 new knees and a fused back from L-1 to S-1 has put a stop to hard rock mining. I will follow up with small equipment later.


OL'29er <-thinking->   
One who loves to play in the dirt

Offline johanssonsan

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2009, 01:42:08 PM »
Anyone using Micro-Blaster? It is working in any direction using just a small drill.
Put out by ezebreak - 

Offline jbgandolf

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2010, 05:11:48 PM »
It's been awhile since anyone has posted on this, but I'm  looking at this very subject. I have a vein 4-6 ft. wide with lots of quarter to half oz. per ton ore with high grade pockets. I know some about milling, but little about tunneling, mucking, and extracting the ore or regulations which in  Calif. I'm sure will be a pain. If anyone can reccommend any books or resources, I would greatly appreciate it. i have access to a machine shop, an electrician, and resources at a reasonable price, but need plans for building equipment, crushers, full size tables, feeders, etc.. Most my experience is dedging, but  I have know some hard rock miners (M&P) and pick their minds some, but I need alot more. Please help.

Offline mldave

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2010, 06:18:25 PM »
Try Handbook for Prospectors by Pearl/or older editions by VonBernewitz..anywhere from$8-$50 online used/new...condition etc.

Offline GollyMrScience

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2010, 07:26:47 PM »
I think dropping back to the older books as suggested is an excellent way to do it. So many of the modern books are based on big budget and big development. The smaller guys get lost in the technology and the economics.
I have a couple of books to suggest as well.
They are written as general overviews of mining and basic technologies and are applicable in scale to what you are looking at.
Both books are by Koehler S. Stout
He was the Associate Dean of Engineering at the Montana College of Mineral Science and Technology
The first is titled
Mining Methods and Equipment
and the second is called
The Profitable Small Mine
both were copywritten in 1989
I do not know if he ever did revised editions but the basic stuff he covers is excellent
Lots of pictures and ideas especially for the small guy.
If you can tell us a little more about the vein you are on and the stage of development you are at you have a bunch of guys here who can help.
How much of the vein is exposed? Are you underground on it now? Has it been drilled? Is there any history on the vein from neighboring claims? Previous development?
Anything at all can help.
Before much in the way of equipment can be determined the nature of the ore needs to be understood. That makes for smart choices and less wasted money.
What the heck - lets just keep mixin' stuff together till it blows up or smells REALLY bad!

Offline jbgandolf

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Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2010, 06:21:20 PM »
Thanks guys! The country rock is green stone. There been extensive work done in the area and this vein has been mined, but the last work was in 1898. At that time it was reported there was plenty of $4.00 ore but no one seem to be able to make a go of it, lack of power and water. They had a 40 stamp mill at the time, feed by this vein and another. The extent of tunnels and so forth I'm not sure but I'm guessing several thousand feet. Rich pockets were found on bends and turns in the vein. The vein is 4-6 ft. wide 150 ft. stope at a steep angle running NW with several other veins in the area running the same direction, most caring some value. From samples (a few pounds) it looks like a quarter to half oz. free milling gold. There were also sulfides discussed in the 1890s, but no value amounts. Most the stamp mills in this area went to 80 mesh, mercury plates and traps. Large pockets to fifty pounds were found.

 


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