collapse


* User Info

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

* Who's Online

mcbain

Dot Guests: 148 | Dot Users
Dot Hidden: 1

* Board Stats

  • stats Total Members: 12799
  • stats Total Posts: 127438
  • stats Total Topics: 17824
  • stats Total Categories: 5
  • stats Total Boards: 48
  • stats Most Online: 814

* Advertisers

Gear Pan
The lil Gold Spinner
The lil Gold Spinner
The Pocket Sluice

Author Topic: Need a bilge pump recommendation (or advice)  (Read 222 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline DharmaSoldat

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 67
  • Province/State: BC
  • Country: ca
  • Kudos: 2
  • Gadget Guy
Need a bilge pump recommendation (or advice)
« on: December 06, 2018, 08:29:54 AM »
Was thinking of using a tsunami 1200 bilge pump and battery to run a small man-pack recirculating gold concentrator in a roughly 14L storage tub. Is this even feasible? Do I need this much power? More power?

Was hoping someone out there could enlighten me on these matters.

Cheers!

Offline JOE S (INDY)

  • PPT Invited
  • *****
  • Posts: 1098
  • Province/State: Trapper Creek, Alaska with Winters in Idaho
  • Country: us
  • Kudos: 63
  • Wiser Mining Through Endless Personal Mistakes
Re: Need a bilge pump recommendation (or advice)
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2018, 10:16:31 AM »
Hey there, Gadget Guy!

Unmentioned, yet important, information is needed --- what width is your "... small man-pack recirculating gold concentrator... "? 

 <-dont~know-> <-thinking->

Joe
Wiser Mining Through Endless Personal Mistakes

Offline DharmaSoldat

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 67
  • Province/State: BC
  • Country: ca
  • Kudos: 2
  • Gadget Guy
Re: Need a bilge pump recommendation (or advice)
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2018, 10:56:06 AM »
Hay Joe,

The concentrating unit I was envisioning would probably be about 10" wide by probably 12-14" long (no more than a foot square, really and about 2 inches deep) - probably 4 3/4" bars inside connected to one manifold. Each bar would have 1/8" holes in alternating 4:00 and 8:00 positions every half inch or so... maybe 24-30 holes per bar.

Does that help?


Offline recgold

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 25
  • Kudos: 3
Re: Need a bilge pump recommendation (or advice)
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2018, 09:11:15 PM »

Since you're talking about a small highbanker to tote in you'll likely want to go with a small light battery.  So that'll probably be lithium ion which will be 3.7v per cell.  It doesn't assemble into a 12v pack very easily.   I'm not sure how how much efficiency is lost when operating at 11.1v but I'd be inclined to assemble a 24v pack.  This could be created with 7 cells in series for 25.9v  I'd consider a 24v bilge pump with the gph rating you need for the 10" width with a low amp hour rating.

If a light battery is important I'd go with something like a Johnson 24v 1250 pumps 2amp (might need to make an 8 or 9inch wide highbanker for it).  Joe will probably give the best answer on pump size.

If you search kijiji Lithium Ion Cells you'll find an add from someone in Cloverdale selling used cells for $1/cell and he'll spot weld a pack together for you.  I haven't bought any from him so can't comment on the quality.  There is risk in assembling your own battery packs so best do a lot of research before trying.  Lithium batteries are known to start fires if they short out or overcharge.



Offline DharmaSoldat

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 67
  • Province/State: BC
  • Country: ca
  • Kudos: 2
  • Gadget Guy
Re: Need a bilge pump recommendation (or advice)
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2018, 09:30:33 PM »
I appreciate all the advice thus far but I should have been clearer about what i'm looking for in hindsight.

The unit i'm looking to build is not a traditional highbanker with a sluice but rather a fluid bed concentrator of the dimensions I noted previously.

Similar units consist of 4-5 spray bars with 1/8" output holes every 1/2 inch alternating in 4:00 and 8:00 positions per bar - which are connected by a manifold. More like highbanker spraybars than flow through a sluice.

I'm looking to build a small man-packable recirculating unit for on-site lights removal, making for more productive panning.

Offline CLHaddon

  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 43
  • Province/State: British Columbia
  • Country: ca
  • Kudos: 4
Re: Need a bilge pump recommendation (or advice)
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2018, 10:29:17 AM »
I think there's still more information needed here. You haven't really said how much water you need, how long you want it to run, etc. If you need 1100 GPH and want to be able to run it for 3 hours before having to charge that's a very different setup than 500 GPH and 10 hours. Have you figured out your volume requirements? Do you know how long your typical prospecting trips are or is this something you want to run at home?

I went through this process myself with my ultralight self-built highbanker and had a hard time figuring out my water supply system. Ultimately I ended up opting for the smallest gas pump I could find because it has the advantage of having a throttle which i can adjust the flow and weighs less than a bilge and battery and doesn't require  charging. I need between 750 and 1000 GPH for my self build but the pump can push up to 1800 GPH if I want to run my large 10" highbanker.

You need to determine your needs and once they've been established it's much easier to find a tool to do the job.

Offline geezir

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 275
  • Kudos: 42
Re: Need a bilge pump recommendation (or advice)
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2018, 08:23:55 PM »
For a hydro-sizer (fluid bed classifier) the overflow velocity must have sufficient traction to remove the size and density of the particles you want gone. The easy way is to use a settling velocity chart such as is found on the USGS Wentworth grain size chart.
Settling velocity of Quartz spheres
1.00 mm . . .    15 cm/sec
0.25 mm . . .       3 cm/sec
0.06 mm  . . .  0.3  cm/sec
The T1200 at max voltage, 13.6 at zero head produces 1200 GPH under field conditions about 900GPH or 15GPM or 0.25GPS
There are 3785.412 cubic centimeters in a US gallon  so our flow is 946.353 CCPS
Divide the pump output by the settling velocity to get the  volume area size at the pumps flow rate.
The convert that to area using the circle area formula, Pi r2 or divide by Pi then take the square root
1.00 mm . . .    15 cm/sec  = 63.09 cc        = 9  cm diameter
0.25 mm . . .       3 cm/sec = 315.45 cc      = 20  cm diameter
0.06 mm  . . .  0.3  cm/sec = 3154.51 cc  = 62 cm diameter
I would think that the overflow would be in the -0.06 mm (230 mesh) or 0.3 cm/sec or less.
If you use a device about a foot square that is 30 x 30 or 900 square cm. at a flow of 0.3 cm/sec  or 27 cubic centimeters per second
27 x 60 x60 = 97,200 cc per hour / 3785.412 = 25 GPH  8) If my numbers are good.



Offline DharmaSoldat

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 67
  • Province/State: BC
  • Country: ca
  • Kudos: 2
  • Gadget Guy
Re: Need a bilge pump recommendation (or advice)
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 06:27:24 AM »
So I decided that I'm going to make a small testbed using our garden hose to see just what kinda force is required and then go from there.

I have a bucket of unclassified gravel from the river, a small clear box and some PVC fittings - it's time to experiment using first principles :D


Offline DharmaSoldat

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 67
  • Province/State: BC
  • Country: ca
  • Kudos: 2
  • Gadget Guy
Re: Need a bilge pump recommendation (or advice)
« Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 09:33:58 AM »
Also, geezir, thanks for the numbers - have no idea if they're right yet but it did direct me to start looking at Hjulström diagrams. Gives me a good understanding of how to plan the plumbing.

Cheers!

Offline geezir

  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 275
  • Kudos: 42
Re: Need a bilge pump recommendation (or advice)
« Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 03:39:12 PM »
Also, geezir, thanks for the numbers - have no idea if they're right yet but it did direct me to start looking at Hjulström diagrams. Gives me a good understanding of how to plan the plumbing.

Cheers!
His traction graph should be of interest to anyone in placer.
See link to forum post: Blue Bowl max'ed out 2016
http://gpex.ca/smf/index.php?topic=18054.msg127279#msg127279

It helps explains why clay is so hard to deal with in sluicing.

Look into "'teeter chamber" classifiers as part of your research.

 


Gear Pan
Gold Rat