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Author Topic: Testing Placer Gold Claim with Large Electric Hammer Drill??????  (Read 1169 times)

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Offline OntarioGoldBug

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Does anyone have experience in using a large (15A) electric powered hammer drill to test placer gold properties with permafrost?  I have attached a picture of a company that claims they do it.  I need to get assessment work done to satisfy the Yukon government so I can keep my placer claims.  I have talked to other professional drillers in the Yukon and none have actually tried this method.  I don't want to bring the wrong equipment with me this summer and waste my trip.  I need to go at least 6 feet deep with a 1 3/4" drill bit.  Getting a SDS Max hammer drill and extension rods is not a problem, but I don't want to buy them if it won't work.

Offline tonofsteel

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Re: Testing Placer Gold Claim with Large Electric Hammer Drill??????
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2018, 07:58:28 PM »
From what I understand placer sampling by drilling can be difficult as the results may not be accurate.  In order to get meaningful results that reflect the potential of a placer deposit the sample sizes need to be large enough.  I came across a reference to a study that Clarkson did on the accuracy of placer evaluation using drill samples.  Conclusion was anything under 4" was totally unacceptable, 4" was marginal/ not very good and 6" was starting to show promise.

I heard of a drill package that looked to my untrained eye to be good but had trouble finding it again to reference here.  Finally found it again though:

Wink Vibracore https://www.vibracorer.com/products/

Simon Fraser University wrote up a doc for students to use and shows in detail the parts and how it works:
http://summit.sfu.ca/system/files/iritems1/15697/etd9217_KSmith_supp_001.pdf

I have no association with these guys but this is where I first heard about it:
http://gpex.ca/smf/index.php?topic=9181.msg63138#msg63138


If you are going to go through all that work and want something "portable" I cant see anything less than the Vibracore (or other similar product) to get results that are meaningful.  I did read some old posts where GollyMrScience was talking about a 8/10" auger drill and doing sampling that way. (http://gpex.ca/smf/index.php?topic=10935.10)  The larger truck/track mounted auger units from 6-12" would be able to get nice sample sizes for better accuracy.  It sounded like auger drilling without casing was the most economical way other than the "portable" methods (above or similar).

If it is possible to get good accurate results using a hammer drill with a 1 3/4" bit I would be interested in knowing why Clarkson was wrong.  The only way it would work that I could see is if the gold was very fine and very evenly disseminated.

There is a Vibracore vid showing it being used in Alaska permafrost, so it should be able to work in those conditions.  I have heard that augers can be useless in permafrost (but can get bits to help with permafrost?)

Offline Haitarai

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Re: Testing Placer Gold Claim with Large Electric Hammer Drill??????
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2018, 09:18:05 PM »
There are many useful links to me.

Offline mulletator

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Re: Testing Placer Gold Claim with Large Electric Hammer Drill??????
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2019, 06:08:30 PM »
Can you tell me what company is offering this?

I'm working on a system that uses a split-spoon sampler and an air powered jackhammer.  This will be for early stage sampling and will not be reliable due to the small smaple diameter.  There is what's reffered to as the "nugget effect".  The larger the diameter the better.  The system that I'm working on will give us a taste and we will follow up with full scale drilling or excavator sampling.

I'm planning to get  a drill string like this:
https://vimeo.com/91465244

I'm going to use an air hammer instead of a Cobra.

I have done large scale auger sampling in the Yukon using a 12" auger.  It worked great! 
For the areas that have permafrost we got really good samples all the way down to bedrock.  For the dry ones the samples werr OK.  If they were wet the samples were not reliable.

See pics of the rig:
https://www.westcoastplacer.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/IMG_5797.jpg
https://www.westcoastplacer.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/DrillSamples.jpg

If you're serious about drilling I know a guy in the Yukon who has the best system available  He has a special R/C drill that sucks up the samples like a dredge.  100% accuracy and relatively fast.  It's better than the auger that we had or anything else on the market.  His rates are reasonable too.  PM me and I can give you his details.

Offline jobinyt

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Re: Testing Placer Gold Claim with Large Electric Hammer Drill??????
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2019, 05:54:43 PM »
I think you'd have to drill a heck of a lot of holes to get meaningful data - just calculate the area of your 1 3/4 bit hole (about 2.4 Sq") vs say a 6" hole (over 28 Sq")  So you've got to drill about 12 of those 1.75" to maybe get the same as one 6 incher.  But I think edge effects would up the requirement another hole or two. As a practical matter - having used such a drill on other work - I think you'll find you have to pull the but often to clear the hole - very slow going.

I take it you want to do the work yourself. The depths you are talking about are very shallow - makes me wonder where you are.  I think you want to be able to get near the maximum depth on your claim - not just skim the shallowest areas.

Also, most important - do you know there was a 2018 change to assessment work requiurements. You need to submit, and get approval, of you work plan the year before you do the work or no credit is earned. Based on the question you're asking I doubt you did that. If you did do that I'd sure like to see a copy of your approved plan - perhaps you send me a PM.

Offline jobinyt

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Re: Testing Placer Gold Claim with Large Electric Hammer Drill??????
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2019, 07:58:24 PM »
Opps - I just noticed the OP is a year ago  :-[

Offline mcbain

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Re: Testing Placer Gold Claim with Large Electric Hammer Drill??????
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2019, 09:43:51 PM »
Hi.Job.It does not matter.I can not see the benifit of drilling placer gravel.Totally different than chasing hard rock.In placer you could be off by a inch and it is not consistantJust my thoughts .Luck,Mcbain.
I started out with nothing Istill have most of it.

Offline jobinyt

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Re: Testing Placer Gold Claim with Large Electric Hammer Drill??????
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2019, 01:37:18 PM »
Mark - yep - I'm just trying to be more polite, diplomatic and tolerant in my old age - once upon a time I would have just called it a DAI. <~ShOcK~>

Offline mulletator

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Re: Testing Placer Gold Claim with Large Electric Hammer Drill??????
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2020, 12:31:52 PM »
If you don't drill on placer then you're not doing it right.  It's OK if you guys don't like drilling.  The big boys know what they're doing.

Smart miners drill before they dig.  There's a wide variety of drills but the good ones get reliable results.

I have worked with several large scale placer miners in the Yukon and drilling has saved hundreds of thousands of dollars and kept on the pay streak/channel without having to dig massive test pits.  We just did a report in the Yukon in September and of course, the mining recorder supports drilling for assessment reports.

Drilling is cheap compared to digging pits/trenching.  If you are meticulous in sampling the grade estimates are reliable.  I have the results to prove it and so do a lot of miners.

Placer drilling dates back to the gold rush.  There have been lots of mistakes made along the way.  That's kind of how placer works though isn't it? 

The old-timers used churn drills, then got into augers.  The best system you can use is an R/C drill. 

The small diameter drills like the electric style mentioned by the OP aren't meant to give a reliable grade estimate.  The mini-systems are meant to give you a hot/cold, that's it that's all.  Then you follow up with more detailed sampling.  It's smart to try to replicate what the big miners do on a smaller scale. 

Bulk sampling is always better but when you have 16km of river to test you'd be crazy not to drill.

I'm working with some guys in the Yukon this spring to run a geophysics program which will then lead to a drill program based on the results.  That's how you explore efficiently.  The same can be done on smaller claims and we do that in BC too. 

I bet you guys think bedrock mapping is a waste of time too.

Smart miners drill.  It makes a lot more sense than trying to get lucky with your excavator.

Offline jobinyt

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Re: Testing Placer Gold Claim with Large Electric Hammer Drill??????
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2020, 05:44:02 PM »
Lol - something is wrong here. The original post wasn't about the advisability of drilling to sample a placer - it was about using "a large (15A) electric powered hammer drill" an SDS drill - for taking those samples. That idea remains as unlikely to receive many after-the-act 5 star ratings.

 


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