CANADIAN GOLD PROSPECTING FORUM - Gold Prospecting Forums

Gold Prospecting Forums - General => Tech Talk => Topic started by: Vikingsniper on January 22, 2010, 05:52:58 PM

Title: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: Vikingsniper on January 22, 2010, 05:52:58 PM
I am starting this new thread to start talking about Clean Gold Sluices in Detail....I feel the need to start a new thread just for this subject....Mr. Plath is more then Welcome to Join In if he chooses to do so ?  
I don't know a whole lot about his system to be honest.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: Greg in BC on January 24, 2010, 10:41:15 AM
OK VS I'll bite  :) If what I write needs to be deleted or withdrawn due to legal action so be it. The information is in the patent that anyone can look up so is public.  I am NOT advocating people build their own from this information and believe that if people knew better how it worked then there would not be so much angst over the whole thing and likely Cleangold would sell a lot more product.

I am intrigued by the Cleangold system. I think that many systems work in many ways and have varying efficiencies. Cleangold seems to have it's benefits and I hope that Fossiker or David will join the discussion to keep things on track and let me know if I have anything wrong or out of place. I do not claim that Cleangold is better or worse than any other system and frankly am always amazed that anyone with any system (including other systems people have been discussing) would make such claims! Too many factors are involved to be the best at everything - there always trade offs.

I have one of the Cleangold prospecting sluices and have used it a few times but to be truthful have not given it a hearty workout it deserves. What I have observed is that it works by having magnetic material in a sheet form (sheets of magnetic material are created with the Pos and Neg poles alternating - in lines across the material) on the bottom of a trough (sluice).  Magnetic granules moving over the sheet form a 'bed' (looks something like corduroy once impregnated with magnetic granules) within the lines of magnetic force.  A stronger magnet would create larger/deeper bed than a weaker magnetic material. 

This bed of magnetic material is not solid.  There is room within the bed for fine gold to settle into and even displace some of the magnetic granules.

You do not clean up the bed whenever it becomes 'full' of magnetic granules.  You want the bed full of magnetic granules and that is indeed how it works.  When you get physically further from the magnetic source your lines of magnetic force will be weaker. We are talking millimeters here, or portions thereof, so what you have are little ridges of small magnetic granules that are held together by the magnetic lines of force from the magnetic material. The granules furthest away are held tenuously in the slurry and can be 'lost' or 'gained' or 'displaced' by heavier granules.

I have seen it collect very very fine gold when I tried it and I have seen some gold escape.  No idea of the % efficiency since it was bank run. Even on the cleanup sluice video on the Cleangold page (not sure if it is still there) they discuss loss %'s and runnign multiple times to recovery higher %.  Having said that it is also very quick to use and clean up and easy to do multiple runs.  You simply scrape the magnetic material off the magnetic sheet into your pan.  It is a very small volume of material so is easy to back pan. 

If you do not have magnetic minerals you are trying to recover (such as some platinums etc) then you can use a magnet to separate off the majority of heavy magnetic minerals other than your gold so you are left with nearly pure gold.  There will be some very small percentage of non magnetics that get trapped in the matrix as well.

When I took it out to try I started taking a small amount of magnetic sand from the last run to 'pre load' the sluice when I started.  That way it would be catching any gold right off the bat.  Otherwise you have a smooth sheet for your recovery.  it would depend on how much magnetic sand you have in your bank run and how long it would take to load the sluice to decide if this is necessary.

I can't confirm this so far but would assume from general common sense that you would not want to run large size gange material in your slurry or too much water flow (such as in a dredge sluice environment with large rocks and fast current) as that may abrade off your magnetic bed and cause some gold loss as that material gets pushed out the sluice. Used in a screened undercurrent or perhaps putting some 'slider bars' with the flow would help to stop the abrasion?

I am definitely looking to incorporate Cleangold into my fine gold sluice design.  To me it doesn't make much sense to have the same riffle style for umpteen feet so i am going to mix it up and include many styles of recovery. If a certain riffle style can't catch the size/shape of gold in the first foot or so then even if you have more length the gold particle is migrating through your system over time. To me it is better to have multiple types of recovery - each may be slightly better at a certain size/shape of particle recovery.

Before the Cleangold sluice came along I had tried magnetic material in a small sluice.  Problem was getting material that was strong enough (magnetically) and in a small size.  You have to buy in very large rolls. 

I don't personally think Cleangold is over priced any more than other mining equipment manufacturers out there. They have a niche product that they have spent time, money and energy developing, it seems to work well for it's application and if it works well will more than pay for itself with the new and easy recovery of very small gold that may have been missed by other recovery styles.  You don't get Keene, Dahlke, HonCoop or Proline etc for cheap either.

I hope this helps with the discussion. Take care get your plans together to get some gold this summer.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: PlacerPal on January 24, 2010, 11:06:40 AM
So, if there are no magnetite granules or black sand the sluice will not work?

 :)
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: Greg in BC on January 24, 2010, 11:42:12 AM
PlacerPal - I suppose so, however I don't know too many areas without magnetics in the material when you are going for the very fine gold. From what I understand this system was developed to be used in areas with that very problem. Too many low value very heavy minerals which tend to lock up a normal sluice. This system uses that to it's advantage.

If you are in such a location with low magnetic then just pre charge with some magnetics - or use some other concentrator for that area since as we've discussed - not every system will work in every area.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: Vikingsniper on January 24, 2010, 11:53:24 AM
Great information Greg  <-shock_>  {cool^sign} Well Done  {-applause-} {-applause-}
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: PlacerPal on January 24, 2010, 12:06:52 PM
PlacerPal - I suppose so, however I don't know too many areas without magnetics in the material when you are going for the very fine gold. From what I understand this system was developed to be used in areas with that very problem. Too many low value very heavy minerals which tend to lock up a normal sluice. This system uses that to it's advantage.

If you are in such a location with low magnetic then just pre charge with some magnetics - or use some other concentrator for that area since as we've discussed - not every system will work in every area.

Yes you are right Greg. I have a bag of Fraser River sand cons from one of my claims and while there does not
appear to be any black magnetite in the light blond sands, I tried some flexible magnet material in a plastic
bag and I got just enough black magnetite granules to produce some ridge type riffles.  <-good_>
Very interesting.

 :)
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: tomcat on January 25, 2010, 12:42:09 PM
Greg in BC
Great article...I had serious doubts about it...but I was not aware  of the magnetic separation strips...that makes things a lot more interesting and believable .

I couldn't see how a plain old fridge magnet would work, except load up and give you a chore to get the black sand off of it with the gold.

They would sell more if they would give us a little more INFORMATION I think we all all thought it was just a simple fridge magnet product.

I think they need a hot shot marketing guy...then they will sell a heap of them  <-good_>

thanks for that
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johanssonsan on January 31, 2010, 12:34:46 AM
Is this a CleanGold system?


      YouTube
            - Bullet bobs black sand machine
    (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5FmyqhXcEI)
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: Greg in BC on January 31, 2010, 12:04:24 PM
Johansonsan, no that does not look to be a Cleangold sluice.  Looks like a miller type table (but with more water flow and deeper material) or chalkboard sluice. 
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: Vikingsniper on February 25, 2010, 10:07:31 PM
Here is a Radio interview with David Plath on the Laura Lee Show about clean gold system.
 {-down-}
Laura Lee Show Sustainable Gold (http://www.lauralee.com/index.cgi?pid=3103)
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: centennial on March 14, 2010, 11:46:37 PM
Heres a link that has some interesting stuff including cleangold vs homemade magnetic sluice vs knelson concentrator. results might suprise you.
Marcello M. Veiga, Associate Professor of University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada, Reducing/Replacing Mercury in ASM Operations (http://www.slideshare.net/EPetrilli/veiga-replacing-hg-in-asm-operations-presentation)
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: lse138 on May 09, 2010, 10:55:51 PM
Is this a CleanGold system?


What you are looking at here is a slate table with 2X4's on the side. I believe this one is in use in Oregon for beach gold.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: JOE S (INDY) on January 10, 2011, 07:24:51 PM
OK VS and Greg,

I too will bite, albeit a year later.

On 07 Jan, 2010 I was contacted by a woman claiming to be “… one of the partners of Cleangold…”.  She further wrote that “… for years now I've watched your comments about us on forums all over the world (which have been neutral to non-supportive).”
 
Her proposal had a unique twist, in that she had, without any prior contact with me, contacted a very close friend of mine (a world class Gold Forum owner) and had asked that he enter into a three way telephone conference with me.   She wanted to discuss, it would seem, my comments about their company and products, using the presence of my friend (as a …”facilitator…”) to make me ill at ease.  

It didn’t work.  

My comments on their products’ effectiveness had been rather minimal over the years, but my thoughts on the inventor / owner’s Savoir Faire were far less than complementary.  

In addition, two other Gold Mining Forums, belonging to two other friends of mine, had been threatened with defamation lawsuits because some of their members had dared to discuss the Cleangold products in other than glowing terms.  

No way was I going to let that happen to yet another Gold forum owner / friend.
 
The following email (tidied up to make it more readable) follows:

Hello (the woman, claiming to be one of the partners from Cleangold.)

 My opinions on the Cleangold line began with some personal email contacts with David Plath shortly after he aggressively spammed his products on every Gold Mining Forum with which I was familiar.  (At the time I was an active member and contributor to 12 mining forums).
  
 His personal email, replying to a few simple, non invasive questions, fully failed the "attitude test" with me.  His stinging and condescending correspondence left a very bitter taste in my mouth and that entire situation resulted in my choice to have nothing further to do with him, his company or his products.  

I have corresponded with many other miners, over the years who had the same discourteous brush off that I received.
 
 My opinion on the effectiveness of this equipment was initially based upon what research I was able to do prior to having the door slammed in my face.  Subsequent to that encounter, it has been difficult to actually find anyone in my circle of acquaintances who had purchased and used any of those Cleangold Products.
 
Three weeks ago (December, 2009) I met one of the Cleangold customers – and the product evaluation was “Not so good”.  Expensive, awkward to use, and unhandy to clean up was the gist of the conversation.  That miner's Cleangold sluice was then placed in permanent "storage" in a closet and it wasn't going to ever see the light of day again.
 
In addition, I wish to make it very clear that my personal thoughts and evaluations of the Cleangold products, which I sometimes post on the internet, are strictly my own.  No public forum is responsible for what I post as my personal opinion.  

I am very familiar with at least two Gold Mining Forums which ban even the mention of “Cleangold” or “David Plath”, and they have done so for quite a while now.  There is a reason for that, and good public relations with David Plath  is certainly not that reason.

 I also find it curious that no one from ‘Cleangold’ has replied to any postings on the various forums that you referred to.  Not since the initial flurry of forum activity years ago has there been any direct input from your organization.  

Substantive replies to forum postings, it would seem, are what is needed to clear the air.

 To sum up, I wish to decline your offer of a telephone conference, and in fact, any further correspondence with ‘Cleangold’ in the future.  I’m sorry to be so abrupt, but that bad taste of past dealings with David Plath still lingers, even after all this time.

And so, while the Cleangold product might just have some value, I have chosen to turn my back on those products.  As to their effectiveness, well, as I was told, "Not so good".

Joe
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: the_postman on February 05, 2011, 07:01:38 AM
I agree with Greg.  I think the CleanGold system has enormous potential for capturing fine gold but it should probably used in combination with other riffle systems to capture more coarse gold.  When it isn't practical to classify your material as carefully as you might like to, one approach might be to scalp off the more coarse, heavy stuff with a pinched sluice and then discharge the tails through the CleanGold sluice.  My limited experience with my CleanGold sluice demonstrates its remarkable ability to capture fine gold.  Like any powerful tool, I think it will take time for us to learn how to use the technology properly.  For instance, I'm learning how to weld -- stick-welding is supposed to be simple, right?  Not for me, anyway.  It just takes time to get a feel for it, the same way guys struggle with Action Mining's wave table and I struggled with my centrifuge when I first got it.   These aren't the kinds of things that you can pull off the shelf and run with and expect perfect results right off the bat.

The key operating issue I see is the need for consistent flow of pulp through the sluice.  Running pure water through it for any length of time will wash the gold right out. 

I also agree that Dave's products are fairly priced.  What Dave is selling is a "system" including detailed techniques to optimize the performance of the sluices.  I understand that some people think that he should freely provide all of his product construction details and techniques but Dave threw his whole life into developing these products and processes and the sales of his products in America help him sell his products for lower prices in Third World areas where mercury use is making people seriously ill.   I certainly don't begrudge him making a little money on his product -- this is his livelihood, not his hobby.   By investing a few hundred dollars in CleanGold products, you can get geared up for the same production capacity that you'd spend thousands of dollars on if you invested in shaker tables or centrifuges.  I hope that I'm not sounding preachy but I've gotten to know Dave a little bit in connection with a product purchase and I admire his intelligence, tenacity and his dedication to making the world a healthier place.   I am so grateful to you guys for having a nice, low-key discussion about the merits of his products -- that's one of the things that sets this forum apart from others where people seem to enjoy flaming one another.   

I've got some ideas regarding how to incorporate a feeder and a pinched sluice into the CleanGold system.  Once I get everything put together and tested, I'll share some pictures with you all.  I can tell you this much -- you won't believe what I intend to use for the pinched sluice but once you see it, I think you're going to like it.  I need to make sure it works first before I spout off too much about it.

You guys have a good day and thank you so much for making this a comfortable, supportive forum for people -- even those folks that you might have had disagreements with in the past!  {-applause-}

Eric Treider
Kenai, Alaska
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: goldmann on February 16, 2011, 11:59:22 AM
CleanGold system is not the only way to avoid mercury in catching down to to about 200 or 300 mesh gold. Also a Popandson sluice, Honcoop HB10 or HB17 sluices, Angus MacKirk's sluices, Le Trap sluice, CA Sluice Box, and G-1 can be used as well.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: JOE S (INDY) on October 09, 2015, 04:51:20 PM
Postman (E T),

Did you ever find any use for that pinch sluice idea in this Sort of 'Fridge Magnet Type System?

Joe
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: overtheedge on October 09, 2015, 11:24:22 PM
I too had an unpleasant conversation with David Plath over the "Cleangold" system. I knew something was phony when I was told that the only way any information about the system would be divulged is if I bought the system. Furthermore there was the implicit threat of court action should I attempt to back engineer and/or tender an opinion about the system.

On another forum I was told by the owner of the forum that I would not be allowed to continue stating anything about the system. I could NOT even speak about the patent.

Further research showed that Mr Plath failed to divulge prior art about the system as patented. In the Popular Mining "Compendium" Vol 1, on page 107, Ernie Wells described the use of magnetic sign material in sluices. Same basic concept as the "Cleangold" system and predated the patent by several years. According to the cover, Vol.1 was for the first 12 issues of Popular Mining which began publishing with issue 1 in Feb. 1984. Issue 12 is dated Jan/Feb 1986.

So the "Cleangold" patent can be contested and whomever does will win. That is how the USPTO does business. Failure to divulge prior art whether accidental or on purpose results in the patent being ruled as invalid.

I stated this and in no way is the forum owner, representatives or readership responsible for my statements. I'm an old soldier and no over the hill surfer dude is going to intimidate me.

eric
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: overtheedge on October 14, 2015, 10:51:20 AM
actionmining.com

Then go to books and look for "BOOK-POPULAR MINING ENCYCLOPEDIA".
You can buy the books (set of 5) or pdf.

Not everything is free. Some folks claim you get what you pay for. Tis been my observation that in many cases, you don't. However I have owned the set for several years and it is well worth the $150USD I paid in spite of the few articles on dowsing. There are some articles by Tom Bryant (The Modern Goldseekers Manual) in it.

eric
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: overtheedge on October 18, 2015, 04:25:06 PM
An update on the prior art not divulged in the Cleangold patent application.

It appears the Popular Mining issue that Ernie Wells gave his magnetic sign material used in sluicing concept in is issue #10. September-October 1985.

I will know for certain as I just found a copy and ordered it.
Should be here in a week or so.

Will keep you all updated with confirmation of the issue if I'm correct. If incorrect, I'll let you all know that as well.

eric
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: Doug Watson on October 21, 2015, 09:27:31 PM
I was going to keep my mouth shut but now I don't have to because Joe pretty much said everything a few posts back!
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: ebuyc on October 22, 2015, 06:20:26 AM
So I too have the same opinion as Joe. I contacted someone a few years ago (updated - I thought it was David but maybe it was Dennis from Fossickers.)  and offered to clean up his amateur looking website in exchange for some info on the clean gold system and a sluice trade of some sort. Although said someine was not rude or anything to me, something felt 'off' and no action ever came from it. Fast forward a year or two and I decided to buy a Pyramid Pro Pan after seeing bedrockbob use one. And I do love the PPP at this time.
Interesting thing is Bob came up with a GREAT pan mod and when Bob presented the 'improvement' to Fossickers it was not only rejected but Bob was told the mod would not work as it change the pan DESIGN or something [email protected]#??

http://bedrockorbust.blogspot.com/2013/01/pyramid-pro-pan-mod.html[/b]]Bob's PPP mod (http://[b)

 [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]

So no to the sluices but yes to the PPP.

As far as the sluices go - I always thought the rubber lining looked like drafting board material... Miller table like grip...

My 2 bits...

{[update}]

So the website I looked at a few years ago is gone or updated - not sure my memory is failing me - probably should not have posted anything at this point...
"I am losing my mind!"



Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johnedoe on October 22, 2015, 07:37:18 AM
I don't think David had anything to do with the Pyramid Pro Pan.
I believe it was designed by Dennis Katz. The Fossicker.

 {[update}]
 ;D No your not losing your mind .... just a senior moment....  <~ShOcK~>
Pan and videos can be seen here..... The Fossickers (http://fossickers.com)
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: overtheedge on November 01, 2015, 09:04:21 AM
Ernie Wells article - Popular Mining Mag (http://gpex.ca/smf/index.php?topic=17200.msg120258#msg120258)

Please understand that I am NOT suggesting that anyone infringe on the patent covering the Cleangold system.
Paraphrased from the USPTO, infringement is to manufacture, use, sell, import or induce others to manufacture.
The patentee, in return for PUBLIC divulgence, received the above EXCLUSIVE rights.

Infringement does NOT include talking about the patent, mentally dissecting the patent or analyzing the probable (in)efficiency.

The patent is published and by virtue of the US Constitution 1st Amendment, freedom of the press and freedom of speech, can be read, thought about, spoken about and should it merit it, ridiculed as just another vanity patent: no different from US patent #3,079,521.


I do not stand aside when threatened with lawsuits for exercising my Constitutional Rights.
Someone far wiser than me said something like, "All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing."

I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV.
I would highly recommend reading the patent US#5927508 for yourself so as to avoid potential infringement in your construction efforts.
Each should always consider the potential outcomes of their actions.

Oh and looking at the Ernie Wells design and his use of magnetic sheeting, take a gander at the science of the magnetism in the magnetic sign material. Please notice the alternating magnetic poles induced in the sheeting during manufacture.

----------------
johnedoe, the article is copyrighted and still available in Volume 1 of the Popular Mining Encyclopedia.
I think you can still buy the set of 5 encyclopedias from Action Mining. Not exactly cheap, but I am glad I bought my set.
Old issues of the magazine can be found for sale occasionally on the web.
Not everything printed is in the public domain.
Ergo, you either gotta buy it, borrow it or use the inter-library loan system.
Never begrudge the producer/service provider their just rewards.
Not all products/services deserve ample compensation.
Caveat emptor.

eric
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: JOE S (INDY) on November 01, 2015, 12:10:15 PM
Well done, Eric    [-1st-]

Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johnedoe on November 25, 2015, 09:44:02 PM
I got the article and all I can say is Ernie's statement is pretty vague..... And if I might say, a paragraph in the "Idea Corner" isn't exactly what I would consider being an article.

I am a curious soul by nature and like to understand how things work, as well as the history of the concepts and their function.

As to the manufacture of mag sheeting , I am aware of the process and the way the magnetic poles are laid out.

I am also aware of the the effects of non magnetic materials passed through a magnetic field and the eddy effect/current produced.

With that in mind the strength of the magnetic sheeting is likely not enough to produce enough magnetic field to create any significant eddy effects to slow any of the golds progress down the sluice.

An example of an eddy current separator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJtdxm3ubOI

An experiment to show the effect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjR8BpZDy6Q
Happy Thank's Giving all..... :)

An example of eddy currents on gold.... a little tedious video but it does demonstrate the point.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMjODJG5n8M
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: goldivanti on January 04, 2019, 01:17:48 PM
I too had an unpleasant conversation with David Plath over the "Cleangold" system. I knew something was phony when I was told that the only way any information about the system would be divulged is if I bought the system. Furthermore there was the implicit threat of court action should I attempt to back engineer and/or tender an opinion about the system.

On another forum I was told by the owner of the forum that I would not be allowed to continue stating anything about the system. I could NOT even speak about the patent.

Further research showed that Mr Plath failed to divulge prior art about the system as patented. In the Popular Mining "Compendium" Vol 1, on page 107, Ernie Wells described the use of magnetic sign material in sluices. Same basic concept as the "Cleangold" system and predated the patent by several years. According to the cover, Vol.1 was for the first 12 issues of Popular Mining which began publishing with issue 1 in Feb. 1984. Issue 12 is dated Jan/Feb 1986.

So the "Cleangold" patent can be contested and whomever does will win. That is how the USPTO does business. Failure to divulge prior art whether accidental or on purpose results in the patent being ruled as invalid.

I stated this and in no way is the forum owner, representatives or readership responsible for my statements. I'm an old soldier and no over the hill surfer dude is going to intimidate me.

eric

I have the issue 12, dated January/February 1986.

The information you have referenced is not in that issue. Maybe in some other, but not in number 12.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: graeme1955 on January 09, 2019, 08:51:35 AM
goldivanti I have read your articles about artisanal mining in Uganda and I applaud your efforts!
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johnedoe on January 28, 2019, 07:19:28 PM
In the for what it's worth dept.....
The patent on cleangold has expired about a year ago.
So those that wish to experiment can now do so.
However the instructions are copyrighted so going into some of that may get a little on edge.

Here is what appears to be the latest cleangold sluice video as well
Nome ... The vid was loaded 7 months ago.

https://youtu.be/Y7Ngq54hcUM
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johnedoe on February 03, 2019, 01:38:25 PM
I too had an unpleasant conversation with David Plath over the "Cleangold" system. I knew something was phony when I was told that the only way any information about the system would be divulged is if I bought the system. Furthermore there was the implicit threat of court action should I attempt to back engineer and/or tender an opinion about the system.

On another forum I was told by the owner of the forum that I would not be allowed to continue stating anything about the system. I could NOT even speak about the patent.

Further research showed that Mr Plath failed to divulge prior art about the system as patented. In the Popular Mining "Compendium" Vol 1, on page 107, Ernie Wells described the use of magnetic sign material in sluices. Same basic concept as the "Cleangold" system and predated the patent by several years. According to the cover, Vol.1 was for the first 12 issues of Popular Mining which began publishing with issue 1 in Feb. 1984. Issue 12 is dated Jan/Feb 1986.

So the "Cleangold" patent can be contested and whomever does will win. That is how the USPTO does business. Failure to divulge prior art whether accidental or on purpose results in the patent being ruled as invalid.

I stated this and in no way is the forum owner, representatives or readership responsible for my statements. I'm an old soldier and no over the hill surfer dude is going to intimidate me.

eric

I have the issue 12, dated January/February 1986.

The information you have referenced is not in that issue. Maybe in some other, but not in number 12.

Here is some more info on Ernies article.
http://gpex.ca/smf/index.php?topic=17200.msg120258#msg120258

It is on page 107 of the popular mining encyclopedia... I have the set and found that article.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johnedoe on February 03, 2019, 05:01:48 PM
I have and use a cleangold sluice and it like any other piece of equipment has it's place.
I use it for beach mining and in that capacity it does work quite well.
I have captured gold in the -325 mesh up to 20 mesh.

I do run a series of different mats in my beach sluice not just cleangold... That gives some of the other shapes and sizes a chance to get captured that might run through the CG sluice.

Anyway not much else to say ... It is what it is and it does work.
Title: Cleangold field assaying method beats laboratories
Post by: goldivanti on April 03, 2019, 10:53:32 PM
This is standard Cleangold method, available from manufacturer, it provides field assay within 5 minutes and replaces laboratory assays, long times in determining the gold content.

You can see the result of one full prospecting pan of material, tested with prospectors sluice.
Result is around 30% better than the same amount of material processed with gold pan

One Estwing 12" gold pan is used for controlled volume of soil, in this case 1.75 liters.
20190492_100447.jpg

The Cleangold field assaying begins:
20190492_100834.jpg

Our Organization Executive Secretary is conducting the field assay on ground in Kenya:
20190492_100844.jpg

Controlled quantity of soil is transferred onto the Prospector Sluice and processed:
20190492_100851.jpg

The final line of gold is seen:
20190492_103515.jpg

This test represents 100 grams per tonne, rich ore. We record pictures by using meter tape and written Prospecting Check report:
20190492_103633.jpg

This ore has from 100-300 tonnes per tonne. The waste ore contains 10-12 grams per tonne.
Title: Cleangold Prospector Sluice beats "vortex" matting
Post by: goldivanti on April 03, 2019, 11:12:52 PM
"Vortex" matting as deceptfully advertised by gold prospector equipment dealers is nothing more but conveyor belt cut in pieces. It is a non-engineered piece of matting that does recover small nuggets and fine gold. Here is clear field test on how much "vortex" or conveyor belt is loosing against Cleangold Prospector sluice.

Date: April 2nd 2019
Place: Artisanal, mercury utilizing mining site in Kenya
Quantity of soil: 50 kg
Estimated grade of ore: 100-300 tonnes from previous reports
Vortex matting: 2 meters long and longer
Cleangold Prospector Sluice: 20 cm on the end of this narrow sluice on picture
Water pressure: manual usage of a bottle, approximately equivalent to 1 RULE pumpe 500 GPH

Results: ALL fine gold stopped by Cleangold Prospector Sluice, "vortex" matting loosing gold even on 50 kg of material. None losses observed and found in multiple verifications of tailings.

The upgrading sluice is being set to test the rich ores on ground. It need not be 2 meters long, but it also shows that 2 meters of vortex matting does not mean really much, gold is lost on the way.
20190492_110842.jpg

The Cleangold Prospector Sluice is almost not seen on the end of this long one, works better than 2 meter "vortex":
20190492_111014.jpg

Crowd is attracted to see what is really going on:
20190492_114032.jpg
20190492_114320.jpg

These are the losses of "vortex" matting caught on Prospector Sluice. No losses found after Prospector Sluice, multiple verifications evidenced it. Proper methodology applied. 20 cm Cleangold Prospector Sluice blocks the fine gold losses from vortex matting.
20190492_121714.jpg

Majority of gold was collected by vortex matting, this is gold larger than 50 mesh:
20190492_123826.jpg

This is gold 50-100 mesh from vortex matting:
20190492_124430.jpg

This is gold smaller than 100 mesh from vortex matting:
20190492_130336.jpg

More than 5 grams of gold collected from 50 kg rich ores. We expected some stamped nuggets. Otherwise, Cleangold system can be used alone to process 50 kg efficiently.

Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: mcbain on April 04, 2019, 07:06:54 PM
Hi.gold ivanti.Your statements contradict themselfes.
#1 conveyeror belts are not vortex.
#2  V ripped matting is not vortex
#3 vortex matting is very highly enginered.Thousands of hours of testing and redesigning goes into true vortex matts.#4 i use vortex and get gold that can only be seen under a microscope.That being said you have not used real vortex matting.I beleive you stated it was too expensive.Both Keenes and gold hog build excellent matting,There are some european copies out there that work well too.Just making a point.Luck,Mcbain.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: goldivanti on April 04, 2019, 10:59:21 PM
OK VS I'll bite  :) If what I write needs to be deleted or withdrawn due to legal action so be it. The information is in the patent that anyone can look up so is public.  I am NOT advocating people build their own from this information and believe that if people knew better how it worked then there would not be so much angst over the whole thing and likely Cleangold would sell a lot more product.

Let me point out difference between the equipment and technology.

Technology as by Wikipedia: Technology ("science of craft", from Greek τέχνη, techne, "art, skill, cunning of hand"; and -λογία, -logia[2]) is the collection of techniques, skills, methods, and processes used in the production of goods or services or in the accomplishment of objectives, such as scientific investigation. Technology can be the knowledge of techniques, processes, and the like, or it can be embedded in machines to allow for operation without detailed knowledge of their workings. Systems (e. g. machines) applying technology by taking an input, changing it according to the system's use, and then producing an outcome are referred to as technology systems or technological systems.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology

So far I know rarely some manufacturer will provide full technology processes, methods, tips, skills advices with the equipment as Cleangold products.

You will simply get to buy the "sluice" without even a piece of information about the actual usage, process, optimizations, and without possibility to optimize the sluice. Unlike with Cleangold products where full methods are provided and easy to explain.

And finally, who needs gold, is not going to have angst.

I am intrigued by the Cleangold system. I think that many systems work in many ways and have varying efficiencies. Cleangold seems to have it's benefits and I hope that Fossiker or David will join the discussion to keep things on track and let me know if I have anything wrong or out of place. I do not claim that Cleangold is better or worse than any other system and frankly am always amazed that anyone with any system (including other systems people have been discussing) would make such claims! Too many factors are involved to be the best at everything - there always trade offs.

No need for theory. Our tests are evident. Gold is lost over conveyor belt matting regardless of its size. Gold is completely captured with Cleangold systems. No losses can be found by using gold panning or Cleangold system. The ore becomes practically not usable any more for local miners and tailings have no values that can be exploited again. I speak of practical usage, not of ideal gold in such soil, I am sure some gold is in soil, but is not worth.

Tailings from all other miners are worth enough for us to exploit them exactly with the Cleangold system.

Other people may do their own tests. They may come up with quite different results.

I have done tests in 2012 and could recover all free gold particles from very heavy black sand loaded grinded lode ore. There was no preparation of Cleangold sluices on my side, I did not follow the methods, as I did not have all the tools. But no free gold particles we could find in the tailings. None.

This does not mean you take the Cleangold sluice and you will get same result as I have got it. There are other parameters such as speed of work, type of ores, slope and water pressure. We retained the ore so to check what gold is lost, nothing could be found. We had a guy running around our ores, very interested, he was giving inarticulate sounds due to his surprise that he could not find any gold particles.

Other person may do test without understanding the methods, not following methods, and not having proper technology to prepare the ores, and may not have same results. Same with many other types of equipment, one need to know principles, usage, at least should have a manual to know how to operate that piece of equipment.

We did not need a microscope to observe that so much gold is lost in too short grinding, so yesterday we have pushed artisanal miners to prepare gold by grinding it somewhat longer. They would otherwise be loosing 2-4 grams per tonne by not preparing the ores good enough.

These pictures below shall be self explanatory.

20190401_164720.jpg
20190401_164726.jpg
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: goldivanti on April 04, 2019, 11:02:51 PM
Hi.gold ivanti.Your statements contradict themselfes.
#1 conveyeror belts are not vortex.
#2  V ripped matting is not vortex
#3 vortex matting is very highly enginered.Thousands of hours of testing and redesigning goes into true vortex matts.#4 i use vortex and get gold that can only be seen under a microscope.That being said you have not used real vortex matting.I beleive you stated it was too expensive.Both Keenes and gold hog build excellent matting,There are some european copies out there that work well too.Just making a point.Luck,Mcbain.

I speak of vortex matting that appears on pictures as dark black or brown matting on the following link:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=vortex+matting+sluice&atb=v154-3am&iax=images&ia=images (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=vortex+matting+sluice&atb=v154-3am&iax=images&ia=images)

That what is commonly known as "vortex matting".

And that what you can see on those pictures is not highly engineered, it is conveyor belt matting, we purchase that from used conveyor belt suppliers such as Atlas Belting https://www.atlasbelt.com/

It does capture gold well, it needs frequent cleanups and it looses so much gold that it simply cannot work alone.

I do not refer to Dream Matting from Gold Rat.

Title: Re: Cleangold Sluice A - Z
Post by: goldivanti on April 04, 2019, 11:21:28 PM
April 4th 2019, Kenya:

Today I was doing a test of 50kg of raw material at location "B". Material was grinded in a rudimentary ball mill for about hour. 

Material has been washed with narrow sluice with Vortex matting, and Cleangold Cleanup Through. Angle of the sluice was 10 degrees and water has been recirculated using RULE pump of 500 GPH. Tailing were checked two times during this process. Check was made using Cleangold Prospectors Sluice. No trace of gold were found in tailings.

After washing, concetrate has being separated. In one bucket was concentrate from vortex matting and in another was black sand concetrate. All concetrate has been worked and gold was extracted. Gold was transfered into metal pot, puted on a fire to let water evaporise and after that transfered on a sheet of paper. Mini digital scale was used to measure gold at
the end of a process and the result was 1,14g of gold per 50kg of material. After that, concentrate tailings were checked two times (one time per ich type of concetrate) with Cleangold Prospector Sluice and no traces of gold were found.

Conclusion is that this type of ore containes
fron 20-23 grams of gold per 1 tone of material.

20190404_141830.jpg
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: JOE S (INDY) on April 05, 2019, 01:23:34 AM
Excellent write-up of your testing!   <-yahoo_>

Your use of English (Tanzanian) is refreshing, creative and a credit to your ability to adapt to and use other languages.  Well Done!   [-1st-] 

I see by your profile that you are from Tanzania and I just read that English is commonly used but one of many other languages in South Eastern Africa.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tz.html

Joe
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: goldivanti on April 05, 2019, 01:37:43 AM
Excellent write-up of your testing!   <-yahoo_>

Your use of English (Tanzanian) is refreshing, creative and a credit to your ability to adapt to and use other languages.  Well Done!   [-1st-] 

In reading about Tanzania I just learned that English is commonly used but one of many other languages in South Eastern Africa.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tz.html

Joe

Person writing it is Serbian. My origin is from Balkan area too. Location is in Kenya.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: mcbain on April 05, 2019, 07:47:57 PM
Hi.Ican see your frustration.Of all the pics you showed,I only seen one that I would consider true Vortex matting.Or what I consider as vortex.Well done.Luck Mcbain.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johnedoe on April 05, 2019, 08:11:32 PM
Hi.gold ivanti.Your statements contradict themselfes.
#1 conveyeror belts are not vortex.
#2  V ripped matting is not vortex
#3 vortex matting is very highly enginered.Thousands of hours of testing and redesigning goes into true vortex matts.#4 i use vortex and get gold that can only be seen under a microscope.That being said you have not used real vortex matting.I beleive you stated it was too expensive.Both Keenes and gold hog build excellent matting,There are some european copies out there that work well too.Just making a point.Luck,Mcbain.

I would like to see an image of this matting you consider highly engineered vortex mat.
Because the vortex mat I am familiar with... That which is used in the gold cube for example is nothing more than conveyor belting....
Just trying to ge t some clarification here so we can all be on the same page.
Thank's
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: Xplore on April 05, 2019, 09:20:00 PM
@goldivanti - I appreciate you sharing your stories and tests with the GPEX community! Thank you for doing that, and please continue to do so.

To my knowledge, there has been zero engineering in terms of gold prospecting that has gone in to vortex matting - a fancy label for conveyor belt matting.

Thousands of hours of engineering into the Gold Cube, yes absolutely. Gold hog mats, definitely.

But not vortex matting / conveyor belt matting itself (other than prospectors making various sluice contraptions and doing R&D / engineering for sluices that USE vortex matting).





Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: goldivanti on April 06, 2019, 06:45:13 AM
Thousands of hours of engineering into the Gold Cube, yes absolutely. Gold hog mats, definitely.

Gold Cube uses same conveyor belt surface. I don't know what is engineered there really, it uses old patents and conveyor belt, it has modern looks, and is promoted well. Gold Cube is for 1 tonne per hour, and people modify it all the time.

It looks like many wish to replace conveyor belt with Dream Mat.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gold+cube+dream+mat&page=&utm_source=opensearch
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johnedoe on April 06, 2019, 10:30:25 AM
I will stick with, deep V mat, sawtooth mat, and cleangold sluice magnetic mats.
The vortex mat collects too much vegetable matter which affects the mats efficiency.

As to deep V mat... I put it on the slick plate of the gold cube. I also run it in my beach sluice before the cleangold which is at the end of the sluice.
https://youtu.be/qs1D6OfvD48
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: mcbain on April 06, 2019, 07:45:46 PM
Do any of you actually know what Vortex is?And how it works.I Know but please explain your version.Seems to be a lot of confusion here.Go back to basics.What settles gold out of the stream and deposits it behind large rocks or slightly down stream of large rocks?Will not be magnets I am sure.When I refer to vortex matt.I refer to matt that is desinghed to repilicate the stream bed.The vortex action of the mat will actually pull gold back into the riffles and keep it there.Conveyor belt and deep V will not do this.Just saying.Luck ,Mcbain.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johnedoe on April 06, 2019, 10:29:46 PM
I am familiar with vortexes but the conversation when that is mentioned has come to be the conveyor belting used in the Gold cube ....... Particularly in this thread anyway.
As to deep V and magnetics I use those in a very specific situation and that is beach mining. They work extremely well in recovering the fine beach gold. Also on the beach I have very little classifying to do since it is sand with the occasional small pebble or some vegetable matter as well as the small chunks of driftwood. I use a high banker setup and that eliminates those little issues.
As you can see from the vid linked below the Deep V mat works very well.   https://youtu.be/qs1D6OfvD48

I know you have extremely fine gold in your area but I think my sluice system would work just fine in your ground. Would love to come and give it a try but I don't think they would let me into BC. I have a little history.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johnedoe on April 07, 2019, 10:17:10 PM
Hi.J.D.I do not care how you slice it but the Cube is a finishing tool.I am talking production.Will your cube process 2 yards of unclassified material a day.Of course not it has to be classified down to 1/8 and that takes many hours.I am talking gold hogg or keenes in a high banker. using either of the above matts both work well.I can process up to 2 yards real fast without classifing..I shovel direct into the highbanker.At the end of the day i will have a good panful of cons.This is what the cube is designded for.To clean your cons.I still do not like the cube.I find the gold hogg washer matt worksd better. and at the end of the day the mats in the cube are just carpet.But seem to work in the cube.I personaly can see no use for a cube.Just saying.Luck.Mcbain.

I agree with you about the cube being better as a finishing tool.... Not sure where you got the idea that I thought it was a production tool. And I think you saw my vid using it as a cleanup tool.
In a beach situation where there is only sand and no larger aggregate the cube can process about a 1000 lbs an hour. The 2 1/2 gallons of concentrates I cleaned in the vid took a little over 2 minutes ... So in reality that is better than a 1000 lbs. an hour given what a gallon of sluice cons  weighs.

Also not sure how we got sidetracked to the cube when we were talking about the cleangold sluice.
I know there has been a lot of controversy about it but it does have a place and it does work quiet well in it's appropriate application. I have a section of it at the end of my beach sluice. Above it I have deep V mat and sawtooth mat.

As to classifying..... My beach sluice high banker does the same as your gold hog high banker.... I shovel into the hopper and as the material is washed the oversized is classified out over the screen and all the sized material falls through to the sluice to be processed.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johnedoe on April 08, 2019, 08:13:36 PM
Goldivanti.....

Thank you for sharing your experiences .... These are great.

I use cleangold at the end of my beach sluice .. The gold from our beach sands is also extremely fine -100 mesh and below, -300.

Please continue sharing your experiences here.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johnedoe on April 17, 2019, 06:11:10 PM
Well now that the patent is no longer in force I was hoping this thread would get on with some good conversation regarding magnetic mat sluices. Be it Cleangold or home made .
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: JOE S (INDY) on April 17, 2019, 09:19:54 PM
I'm trying, bit by bit, to learn more about extremely fine Gold recovery.  Over the years I have learned quite a bit - but mostly I learned that I have a long way to go.   <-laugh->

One awkwardness I see with the magnetic material firmly adhered to the sluice floor is that scrape-outs (clean-outs) are a bit unhandy. 

I would think that if stronger magnetic properties could be used the magnetic lines of force would be able to penetrate through a thin (say Stainless Steel) over cover and at the clean-out time just raise the Stainless Steel away from the magnetic material (like removing old style carpet) and wash away the concentrates into a container. 

The dynamics of water, magnets and Magnetite are sometimes hard to work with.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johnedoe on April 17, 2019, 11:10:17 PM
Hey Joe.
You have seen my sluice so you will understand what I m about to describe.
You are absolutely correct in that the clean outs are less than perfect by using a bondo spatula or putty knife.
So I tried a sheet of heavy visqueen and lined the whole sluice under my sawtooth and deep V which precedes the cleangold section.
The visqueen then goes over the top of the magnetic sheeting .... Cleanup is now just removing the sawtooth and deep V mats and then the visqueen..... rinse in a bucket , reinstall and your off and running again.
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: JOE S (INDY) on April 18, 2019, 10:00:37 AM
EVEN  BETTER!

I can clearly see the thinking there and that's certainly what I was thinking.  Visqueen instead of Stainless Steel is a big improvement!   <-party->

How does the visqueen thickness affect the magnetic fields going through it to be used on the Magnetite?  Next to no effect?   <-good_>

That development almost makes me want to jump in the truck to come see it - I said almost so you're safe for now.   [email protected]*

Congrats on a great idea!

Joe
Title: Re: Clean Gold Sluice A - Z
Post by: johnedoe on April 18, 2019, 08:20:40 PM
 <-laugh->
The visqueen causes no noticeable adverse affects.
Makes cleanup a breeze. Also seals all joints between sections of the sluice.

I finally made it up to Benson beach Cape disappointment State park in Washington......
Man I wish I lived closer .....
Give me a call or let me know when you are available and I'll call you and tell ya about it.