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Gold Prospecting Forums - General => Hard Rock Mining => Topic started by: GPEX admin on January 26, 2008, 12:13:42 PM

Title: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GPEX admin on January 26, 2008, 12:13:42 PM
For the many who desire to venture into such, we’re looking for all the input and advice you’d care to offer.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Feldwebel Wolfenstool on March 30, 2008, 07:44:50 AM
Amethys mining, ya, ok...many do it here.  But Archean Gold?  Forget it, in Ontario.  ARD,"ACID ROCK DRAINAGE" issues...
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: geophizz on March 31, 2009, 08:16:31 PM
Hi Feldwebel,

Could you - or anyone else - elaborate on this acid rock drainage issue?  Although I have heard of it, I don't really know what it is, how it comes about, or what you do about it.

Thanks,

Rob
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: ClickTheYellowChick on March 31, 2009, 09:52:09 PM
Hi, there.

I did a quick Google and to my surprise found the following Wikipedia coverage of this topic. 

WIKI talks ARD (Acid Rock Drainage) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid_mine_drainage)

I hope this helps you on your  journey to greater understanding.

WELCOME ABOARD!
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: geophizz on April 01, 2009, 06:17:11 AM
Thanks Megan!

I really should know more about ARD, since our equipment is often used to map groundwater contamination as a result of ARD, but I haven't been focused on those instruments or applications yet.

I guess Bogart, Huston and Holt never had that problem in the Sierra Madres, eh?

Cheers,

Rob
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GollyMrScience on April 01, 2009, 11:10:43 AM
Acid rock drainage is a function of weathering of sulphides.
It is not an issue with placer and it is only an issue in certain hardrock operations.
While the mine is active the tailings can be an issue and the water pumped from the mine has to be watched. For a mom and pop operation the scale of operation is usually so small that the issue is minimal and if they watch their P's and Q's they can minimize it. Even so they will face an uphill battle getting permits if there is a potential for acid drainage because of the sins of previous operators.
Canada has very few mom and pop hardrock operations - the US has quite a few in some states.
Important to the process is building in the economics right from the start so that proper remediation can be done when the shutdown comes. Notice I said WHEN - it is not an if. It is painful to do but you have to have money left when the money stops and since shut downs can happen for many reasons it can be tough to plan for. A remediation fund that cannot be touched even when you are going broke as the mine turns uneconomic. Not a negative - just a reality.
Kenny Rogers said it  - "Know when to fold 'em." That can be the single most important mining decision a person will make.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: geophizz on April 01, 2009, 06:07:12 PM
Thanks Golly.

You said that
Quote
Canada has very few mom and pop hardrock operations
, which implies that there are some.  Do you know of any?  I'm sure there would be some interesting stories there!

Cheers,

Rob
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GollyMrScience on April 01, 2009, 06:30:17 PM
I haven't seen a mom an pop hardrock operation in Canada for many years. There were a couple of guys blasting and shipping an arsenopyrite/gold vein for awhile not far from Madoc Ontario.
There are some mom and pop hardrock mines that mine other commoditites. Small quarry stuff like decorative rock, or talc or jade but gold mom and pops are few and far between.
I am sure there are a few hardrock gold mom and pops but I haven't been paying attention to them. I will check around and see what I find.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: ClickTheYellowChick on April 01, 2009, 11:32:07 PM
Help me out here, guys, as I'm fuzzy on North of the Border geography.  Is Nova Scotia considered "Canada?"  If so, I know of a mom and pop operation who has their claims for sale.  They've been Father/Sons mining it for a couple decades and have had the properties for dozens of decades.  I've bought specimens off of them, and my MSHA e*breather W-65 Self Rescuer, that clangs on my hip when I'm hardrockin' down here in the states.   He's also got several of those unused units for sale.  He and his partner bought a close-out from a coal mining outfit that closed up there.  Heck of a nice guy, and a heck of a deal. 

Just let me know, and I'll gladly put y'all in touch.  <-yes_>
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GollyMrScience on April 02, 2009, 06:16:56 AM
Yup - Nova Scotia is still part of Canada no matter what THEY say.  <-laugh->
I knew that they had a solid history of gold but was not sware that anyone was actively mining on a small scale.
What can you tell us about their operation Megan?
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GPEX admin on April 02, 2009, 08:16:46 AM
HARDROCK MINING    - - two words which strike our fancy of wealth coming from the ground, yet, seemingly, a scary figment of dream-nature.

When most think of hardrock mining, thoughts commonly lean toward the vision that “that’s way out of my league.” But actually, is it? Or is it but a myth generated by the evolution of our industry from the small-time operator of yesteryear to the corporate entity hinged on today’s investor stocks?  Why then compact one’s self into a very small segment within the mining industry - - one which does not bear all the blossoms that could come forth? As the topic so indicates, shall we then “fully” explore the merits (the Pros & the Cons) of small-scale hardrock mining. The Mom n’ Pop scale of mining.

In the capacity of that which is hereto inferred, might I suggest we refer to it as surface and/or near-surface hardrock mining?  In the opening stage or stages, this would exclude deep-shaft or extensive tunnel mining. Exploiting the resources more at hand, as in open face, open pit, trenching, and the like. 

Logically, though to a lesser degree when it comes to a M&P operation, a lot of common mining regulations may then come into play, but in some aspects, to a lesser extent than that for large-scale operations. Here in British Columbia, as with most any national or international jurisdiction, for one’s own safety and that of others, a good percentage of Work Safety regulatory would also apply, but in Mom n’ Pop scaled operations, these should prove more minimum than not. Pending the nature of recovery and the nature (and location) of processing, the full extent of environmental issues may or may not come into play. Remediation is also an item to factor into the operation, but hey, right now we are only at the initial exploratory stage so we won’t be conducting any major landscape changes in exploring the property’s true potential.

Another BIG scare-away thought, when it comes to thinking about conducting a Mom n’ Pop hardrock operation is, the Big BOOM !!  The need for dynamiting the deposit to liberate the ore. However, for the scale of which we initiate all this on, let’s bring ourselves up to date on all available technologies.  Instead of “BOOM”, then let us think more in the capacity of “snap.” For those not familiar with all the various products out there, I speak of a non-explosive, controlled expansion demolition agent, which when poured into pre-drilled holes, and upon drying, generates up to 18,000 psi silent expansive cracking, shattering or breaking apart, the hardrock element of your deposit. Dexpan, or similar bentonite-based products are that referred to

While thoughts may now expand like the aforementioned agent, let us keep focus that the initial elements are firstly the acquisition of a promising property, securing any necessary exploration permits and then sampling (and assaying samples from) the deposit. Drilling the holes may be effected as simple as using a small portable rock drill, whether gas powered, pneumatic or electric - - the latter two through using a portable generator, the pneumatic employing an onsite compressor.  Hardrock mining made simple for Mom and for Pop.

Next consideration - - how do we then liberate the target elements from the ore ?  Here, I’m sure, will open a whole new arena and likely deserving of its own thread.  Possibly some of our more affluent on the topic will accept that endeavor. But for a M&P operation, we might start with a small (self-fashioned or otherwise) crusher. And comes forth another topic for the DY’er.  Thence, and yes another topic - - mechanical and/or chemical separation of the target element or elements.


And let us not bear such narrow scope as to preclude the only hardrock mining of value rests in Gold and/or other precious metals, for there remains base metals and other valuable mineral deposits quite worthy of considering. All of which bear value in their own perspective.

When it comes to advancing to underground operations, lest we not overlook the fact that a M&P operation could develop into an attractive package of which the big boys might then take interest in. Facilitating either a sell-out or a royalty package.

So, as small-time miners, or should we say, the Mom n’ Pop miners, let us not diminish our existence, importance and value to the mining industry.

This post bears all the earmarks of becoming a   l  o  n  g   and extensive one - - your turn folks!
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GPEX admin on April 02, 2009, 11:52:37 AM
Have a question, Mr. Science....

I assume you already hold knowledge of the Dexpan type expansion products, so, in that I already hold a number of Bentonite claims, if I were to consider using some of the the mineral for preparing such demolition (rock fracturing) agent, myself, might you know it's formula?  I assume in a pulverized or powdered state, but would there be any additives or special preparation ?  And what grade of Bentonite would be best ?
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GollyMrScience on April 02, 2009, 01:42:25 PM
Dexpan has not really caught on for underground work yet. While it has potential it can only do one of the jobs in a blast that explosives do.
In an underground blast you want to break the rock in a predictable manner to create both an opening and a certain size of muck (broken rock) with fracturing in the broken rock from blast shock that will help with crushing (not a requirement but a happy result) and heave the broken rock out from the face for propping your jackleg on and/or loading.
The expansion products can only break rock and they need someplace to break it to.
In a tunnel situation you can imagine all the expansion forces moving out from the holes filled with product. But as the rock is surrounded on all sides the expansion forces just prop each other and against the sidewalls. The only way to get around that is to use relief holes that will give some under force so a crack can propagate properly. Relief holes are common in explosives blasting too and they can be an excellent way to control breakage and can save explosives use too.
For quarry work there is a lot of potential especially in decorative rock etc where you want to preserve large blocks without having fracturing from blast shock. It is a nice, gentle heave and if done right will split a rock like using wedge and feathers (a metal wedge shaped chisel that is hammered between two metal shims)
The temperature specific formulas that are used can be problematic but are certainly manageable.
I don't know what they are using in the dexpan formula but I will do some checking.
The time frame is a factor for some. The product looks real handy as a replacement for mud packing to break up boulders but the wait for up to 48 hours compared to just a few minutes with explosives plus the need to drill holes rather than just place explosives on top and pile mud or dirt over them to get the job done can affect the decision.
It is no doubt a valuable product in the right place though.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: ClickTheYellowChick on April 02, 2009, 04:16:48 PM
Yup - Nova Scotia is still part of Canada no matter what THEY say.  <-laugh->
I knew that they had a solid history of gold but was not sware that anyone was actively mining on a small scale.
What can you tell us about their operation Megan?

Well, not a whole lot, Tom, since I last corresponded with them in Feb this year.

He did send me the following photo...which is the kind of stuff I enjoy buying from him in small quantities.  He's got a grrrrreat camera <-yes_>  I tease him about his Paul Bunyan thumbs, however. <-good_> Those are indeed a working miner's hands, a.k.a., HONEST DIRT!   <-yes_>

(http://goldplatinumtutor.com/goldtutor/specimen.jpg)

I wrote him t'day to see if he was willing to share more info than what I've felt safe in saying prior.  As you know, the gold business is a touchy business, and I don't want to get the reputation of either saying something wrong, or telling tales out of school. 

I've never personally seen their operation, except in photographs he's shared across the years.  Altho', I've known of him and his operation in N.S. for oh, about 5 years I'd guess,  I'm standing by for his reply. 
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: ClickTheYellowChick on April 02, 2009, 04:54:13 PM
Have a question, Mr. Science....

I assume you already hold knowledge of the Dexpan type expansion products, so, in that I already hold a number of Bentonite claims, if I were to consider using some of the the mineral for preparing such demolition (rock fracturing) agent, myself, might you know it's formula?  I assume in a pulverized or powdered state, but would there be any additives or special preparation ?  And what grade of Bentonite would be best ?

Hello, Larry,

I can cut down on Tom's research time if you'll let me...  Here's the formula info I found on DEXPAN!

(http://goldplatinumtutor.com/goldtutor/dexpan.jpg)

Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GollyMrScience on April 02, 2009, 05:30:50 PM
Thanks Megan.
So what we are dealing with is likely an unrefined lime or quicklime.
The stuff is caustic and it will expand with heat when water is added.
It does not look like they are adding anything to add to the hydraulic effect. Some other hydraulic agent - perhaps an expanding clay for instance.
Can't see it from the formula at least.
I have been trying to see if the name Dexpan could stand for some critical addition to make it work even better.
So far no luck.
I guess the name quicklime was taken......a couple thousand years ago..
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: geophizz on April 02, 2009, 06:10:35 PM
Here's an interview (http://the-slow-lane.blogspot.com/2006/12/keith-barron-geologists-view-of-gold.html) I came across a couple years ago with a friend of mine, Dr. Keith Barron.  He's discussing the gold market and, if you read between the lines, it looks like there's a lot of potential for very small operations.  With the majors only focusing on very (very) rare five million ounce (plus) deposits, and juniors forced by the markets to follow their lead, it's possible that a lot of very small, high grade orebodies could be ignored.

Cheers..
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GPEX admin on April 02, 2009, 09:43:26 PM
Thanks for the formula Megan, I don't know how my mind passed by the lime aspect, I should have been able to put that piece into the puzzle. Many years ago (in Nova Scotia) my ex's father told of the old times when they used to use rock lime, packed tightly in a weighted bottle with a few nail holes in the lid, for dropping into pools on the river in their neighboring efforts to get the year's supply of salmon. They used to get it from the old Corchrane Hill gold mine in central Guysborough County.  Never tried it myself but he swore it worked ever as good as dynamite, and much safer to handle. An underwater boom and everyone with dip-nets downstream. Quite probably the lime then constitutes a major component of the Dexpan type-products.

Also, an impressive showing of gold in the sample.  It would also be about 5 to 6 years ago that I conversed with a chap in Nova Scotia who had been actively involved with a M&P operation.... possibly they are one of the same.  I do forget the name now, but I think their deposit might have been down in Shelburne County.  When I get time I will have to search out the old-time database. There's some good deposits down in Nova Scotia.... I held four titles down there in the early 80's.

Do believe you’re on target geophizz.

I’d prepared the following so may as well insert it into this posting, as follows:

Such an excellent address Mr. Science. However, I wonder if my reference to Dexpan-type agents somewhat shifted the primary focus away from the actual aspect of M&P operations. Saving that all remains within that perspective, and where a large daily tonnage is not the perceived (in at least the onset), possibly we could touch on various facets that might be of help to individuals contemplating, or otherwise desiring, a hardrock venture.

In that the M&P venturist (new word) is not equipped with high-tech exploration gear and relies primarily on one’s visual capabilities and judgmental senses, our tool chest may now be augmented with today’s gold detector capabilities, so possibly we may look closer into proving out prospects suspect of carrying commercial values. My use of the words “commercial values” in place of “precious metal content” was purposely placed so as to not narrow the scope of what the small miner may come across in the field. If we program our minds into looking specifically for gold, then generally, that’s all we’ll see, so then, even though gold may be the primary target, let us leave that door in our minds with an open crack.

To enhance upon the aforesaid, whether or not most know, larger mining companies have scoured our lands with some of the most sophisticated devices known to mankind, and they are always striving to enhance upon mineral identification capabilities. But do most know that such said companies have discovered and mapped out, virtually countless deposits (many of which are high-grade), yet, such said discoveries were not of sufficient size to attract the multimillion to multibillion dollar size mining operations that (generally) public-traded companies seek out. Lord only knows (and those mining companies) how many one million to two million dollar gold deposits there actually are, which dot our landscape like chicken-pox. Small for them, large for us. Certainly enough to keep Molly n’ Pete in bread and butter for many years to come, not to mention the adventure of getting out there enjoying Mother Nature, healthy exercise and achieving something most folks would envy.

Generally, for the small operator, a hardrock consideration is based on surface detection of a suspect ore body, or, from placer work, indicator elements, provided we’re shrewd enough to pick up on them. Either way, the little guy wishing to grow an inch or two, can narrow the odds. Word of advice, don’t dwell on a potential dollar amount that a hardrock mine operation might bring, but rather focus on identifying a deposit worthy of further investigation. For this, chip samples, grab samples and the like. Most often though, such exposed outcrops, etc will have had thousands to millions of years exposure, and natural abrasion, so the veins holding the clearer indicators will likely be cloaked from easy view. Though not always a sure-fire method, run your detector over the suspect feature, you may be surprised with the aid this little bundle of electronic paraphernalia will surrender. However, where our suspicions are mounting and we can’t seem to get deep enough for good samples, this is where a product like Dexpan might come into play. As Mr. Science so indicates, for setting off our little “snap” charge, one would not drill straight in on a rock face to have the forces work against one another, but rather, drill your load holes inward on a tapered cone-shaped pattern - - when the agent dries, it then has a clear avenue in which to force the shattered material outward.  And it is from there we are able to get more responsible samples for our assays.  One way or the other, we have to capture good samples to qualify our further efforts on a suspect deposit.  Step No.1, the prospecting - - Step No. 2, the identification of what we’re looking at.

While all the aforesaid might be elaborated on in greater depth, it should, however, offer the perspective that a small operator can indeed, forge toward a M&P hardrock operation. And that very worthy ore bodies (for the small guy and gal) do exist. Sure, it may not offer the (seemingly) leisure afforded by a placer operation, but where else is it most small operators can set themselves up with a million dollar operation without huge investment?  The discovery - - then work your small deposit to where it is feasible to take it - - and if it does prove out to be a major deposit, farm it out or sell it, and move along to your next hardrock venture.

Much more to come, I’m sure - - so the floor is open for all those with thoughts and questions, and those who wish to offers some of the answers. This is not a technical paper but rather an universal invitation for all members to pass their views and collectively refine some of the pathways and obstacles that may be encountered in a M&P hardrock operation.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GollyMrScience on April 03, 2009, 07:26:43 AM
As with prospecting there is a wide range even in the "mom and pop" scale of mining.

Mom and Pop mining in hardrock in Tanzania would be two guys digging a four by four foot hole straight down in the middle of a maize field till they hit weathered bedrock and then they haul out five gallon pails full of material over the morning. All hand dug. The ore is then pounded in a mortar and pestle made out of a piece of axel steel and a hollowed out stone or another peice of scrap steel or iron. That powder is panned for the gold. Sometimes they use mercury.

In North America we have the benefit of better infrastructure and equipment readily available but that means we are kinda spoiled. It would be a rare person here that would be content with recovering a gram of gold per day from the level of work the african miners put in.

Too often I think professionals in the industry use the term "Mom and Pop" as a put down like they are less professional in their work or knowledge. Like Walmart putting down a corner store owner. It is an unfair characterization as far as I am concerned because what we are talking about is a question of scale. Just because a Nevada gold mine has to move 1,000 tonnes of ore in a day to be profitable does not mean that a Mom and Pop operation that moves ten tonnes is any less worthy and in truth at the end of the day the returns are profitable and sustainable to the satisfaction of the operators.

I think that I am going to refer to Mom and Pop operations as "Small Scale Mining" as I want to break away from any suggestion that they are less than worthy.
Small Scale Mining has a reputation in the industry as being more likely to fail as a mine. This idea comes mostly from the industry watching small scale miners undertake projects without doing their homework or without adequit funding or knowledge. It is the nature of the beast that a person can start up a small scale mine with very little of anything. Knowledge, experience, funding, exploration, equipment, and a host of other real needs become secondary to a person who just wants to get mining.

On the one hand you want to congratulate them on their ambition but you catch yourself shaking your head in wonder when you ask things like "Have you drilled off a mineable reserve?" or "How are you going to get the gold out and make a profit doing so?"

This is part of the move up to small scale miner from hobby miner. While it is possible to small scale mine as a hobby for fun and never make a profit the need to cover the greater costs starts to pull the small scale miner up into rarer air. The expression the Spaniards had about having to own a gold mine to afford a silver mine comes to mind.
Given that the greatest tool for a small scale miner is knowledge I think we have one of the best ways to share that right here.

Given that a small scale miner (SSM for short though after seeing the troubles that some have had maybe they are more into S & M) is going to have to cover the entire range from grassroots prospecting to final winning of PROFITABLE returns this is a great thread to cover off "appropriate" technology and approaches to make things profitable.
So we can cover topics as far ranging as prospecting for hardrock to approprately scaled equipment that will process and recover profitable returns.

Notice I keep harping on the word "profitable". That is the benchmark - the desired result. All else flows to that one target. Anyone can mine for a loss - thats a skill that seems to be universal but big companies are better at breaking out of that by throwing a heck of a lot of money at the front end of the work. They are not going to do one blessed thing unless they have already got a darn good idea what they are going to run into for ore and grades and over what area and with so much cost and with such and such equipment to mine and recover.

At the end of their projected day they know how much they will have for profit.

In an Ideal world.

But even they can get caught.

Recognizing that even the big guys with deep pockets and big resources can run into trouble where does the SSM fit into it.

Next post.
Sounds like a Soap Opera lead in.

"As the Drill Turns" kinda thing.
Stay tuned.

We have some great resources in the people we have here so this could get fun!
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GPEX admin on April 03, 2009, 10:29:07 AM
I fully agree the corporate collar execs extend a derogatory view toward the MP miner, but when the bottom line is written, who actually gives a hoot in bananas? Most generally the bigger critics are those who either walk blindly or are too danged jealous that persons beyond their boardrooms can engage in a project and wind up with better figures whether it’s measured by the loss or the profit margin. If the large ticket shareholder were to make their own measure, quite likely they’d see a better investment-return-factor in saddling up with the little guy rather than the mega-spending counterparts. The MP or SS miner by far, enjoys gains that their big brethren can only dream of - - firstly the “hands-on” enjoyments instead of tie-tightening ritual for the next Board meeting, the ability to get out into Mother Nature for a day full of much needed exercise, the excitement of news-sharing around the dinner table when a good lead is discovered, the anticipation of what each tomorrow might bring, so and so forth. Seems to me, the only person or persons who suffer greatest from such warped point of view, are the spiteful people who spend their entire day looking into mirrors. Who cares?  Maybe it’s high time the prestige of the M&P miner is worn with honor, for their footsteps leave far greater imprints than that of any corporate collar I’ve ever met. The small guy in most every fashion is human-like, while the big guy more resembles a robot. And I’m sure, the MP/SS miner wears a higher respect amongst the peer factor.

Bach to our house of business.

In kicking this thing off, let’s try to keep the horse in front of the cart. Such being said, let’s try to prioritize the steps a small miner should be looking at. The majority of minds may then go toward the in-the-field prospecting element, but I feel that which holds greater criteria is the planning aspect - - this being that phase beyond coaxing sweet thing into supporting, or at least, condoning the effort. If one desires to engage in small-scale mining, he/she ought to be drafting a fundamental plan, and one which fits the budget. No. 1 - Seeking out all available knowledge that will help us along our way. Thence might come the very important part of either buying or gearing up, the necessary tools needed to get started with. So - - what all might be in the small miner’s back pack and tool shed? Rock-sample acquisition tools for one, and possibly a small rock crusher for another, even a portable core drill. And the floor is now passed over to other members to hash over which might be the best tools for the trade, how best to acquire these, or make them, and other facets of consideration. Though focused toward one, a 1000 minds are much better than one, yet mutually beneficial to all.

Assuming we have acquired the “bride’s” permission (or groom’s), we now have left, countless empty pages starving to be filled by co-authors. So..................... beyond the normal hand grenades and a flame-thrower for bears (you can see where my love lies) what might that back-pack look like… and what have we got geared up in the shed ? Add-to lists, you might say..... neat little things and ideas. Hey.... the upcoming "CGPF Co-operative Handbook for Small Miners." A free online publication.  That's got a nice ring to it!  Do we have onboard any artisians of the pen?

Back Pack
- white glue
- sticky paper
- loop or pocket magnifier
- ?
- ?
- ?

Tool Shed (? Truck Bed)
- ?
- ?   
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: ClickTheYellowChick on April 03, 2009, 11:30:10 AM
Larry, and all,

I'm EXCITED about the energy this thread is generating.  I've got to leave town here in a few and will return later.
However, I wanted to chime in and remind all that we are indeed PRAGMATICALLY discussing the TWO LEVELS of M&P operations that haven't scaled up into small scale mining operation(s).

Level 1:  Below Radar   [&whistle#]
Level 2:  All permits in hand, not afraid of the radar/red-tape/bureaucracy   <~ShOcK~>

We need to be clear about which level we are addressing, okay?

I'll have more to share about this practical M&P biz model vs. SSM model upon my return. 

Oh, and before I forget, I've heard back from my Nova Scotia M&P seller.  What an EXCITING opportunity for SSM this is for someone, perhaps even here on this forum???  I know I'm not going to suddenly move to N.S., so don't look my direction.  <-laugh->

Later, all.

Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: ClickTheYellowChick on April 07, 2009, 11:14:43 AM
Golly, Larry, Geo-guys, etc.,

While I haven't forgotten my promise to return and share more about the Nova Scotia opportunity for SSMng, etc.,...I've been cogitating on this Dexpan thread portion.

Would you scientific types be able to come up with something with a greater co-effecient of expansion than the amphorus silica used in Dexpan?

Seems to me to expand upon that line of thought (pun intended [email protected]* ) that would be the ticket to more "bangless for the buck," that I gathered Larry was hoping for.  Yes?   No?   <-thinking->
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GollyMrScience on April 07, 2009, 04:28:02 PM
Well darn it! I sent a very detailed reply to this and it has gone AWOL on me!
Oh well - here is the condensed version.

Here are some study materials for anyone interested.

 There are lots of expanding mixes but most dont have the oomph to apply enough hyraulic force to fracture rock.

Several mechanical systems out there that use an expanding tube and one that as far as I know is still in development that uses foam injected under pressure. The foam does not expand it just transfers the force from pressurized system more efficiently.

Here is a link to a wiki referrence on non explosive demolition agents - will pass your way and study for myself later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-explosive_demolition_agents

I saw a demo of a mechanical expansion system that appeared to be based on rock bolt technology.

The expansion systems have not caught on with most mining because blasting  is still cheap for the energy and money put into it. Also these non explosive systems cannot lift and heave material or break away a working face like explosives can. Still, when used in their right place they are real handy.

If you wanted to break boulders you have a "semi" explosive system that uses something that looks like a shotgun shell. You drill a hole into the boulder from the top and then fill it with water. A shell holder device is placed into the mouth of the hole and the operator uses a lanyard to pull the firing pin. When the shotgun shell goes off it compresses the water and the hydraulic pressure goes out in a wedging action to blast the rock apart. No fumes or explosives per se and no blasters ticket required.

A couple of systems of that type. Here is a link to one of them
Boulder Buster: Solution for Breaking Rock, Boulders & Concrete (http://www.boulderbuster.ca/)

Here is the same product but different video and a more sophisticated accent.

::Boulder Buster:: (http://www.boulderbuster.co.za/index.php?nav=home)

Ok more later but I am sending this before it goes away on me too.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: pasty on April 28, 2009, 09:27:13 AM
Hi, just 2bits worth, 1. YOU HAVE TO GET THE BLESSING FROM THE mine INSPECTORS,
 2, YOU HAVE TO GET A HUNDRED AND ONE PERMITS
 I would take a few samples and take them to a mining engineer ( after you have staked the ground ) and get his blessings . Or have a assay done on the sample . After said and done go to a large company with your samples and report . Good luck.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: 29prospector on June 03, 2009, 11:25:32 AM
Larry,
To add to the list:

Back Pack
- white glue
- sticky paper
- loop or pocket magnifier
- Sample bags (6)
- Small drawing Pad
-Pencils

Tool Shed (? Truck Bed)
-Small shovel
- small pick
-rock hammer
-small hand crusher
- 20-30 mesh small classifer
-10-14" pan.

When I first started out with my father I was 6 years old. The first thing he taught me was once an area is decided upon you get apox. 1/2 to 1 mile away from the hill or mountain if possible. Climb to a height that you can see most of the area of interest and draw it out on the sctech pad. Using a pair of binoculars study the rock formations, ridges, washes first. Next notice the different colors of the formations. This process may take a month or 2 but will save many wastefull days looking around.
Once you have pinned down an area, go into it and begin doing the ground work. If viens are found, take the first 6" off if possible and than gather samples ever 5-10' along the vien. Once back to your truck, hand crush the rock till you have about 3/2 cup of material. Pan this out to see if there is any color. If you have color, that is more than a couple fine specks, make a note of each panning.
If the returns in your pans are good, go back and pull4-6 10 pounds samples out. Thake them home, break them up into smaller pieces, combine all the material together and split it 4 ways. Take a small hand sample from each pile and make 4 new piles. Keep two for your self and sent the other 2 out to 2 differents for assay. Once the reports come back in you can determine your plan of operation.
After hard mining and prospecting for 52 years, I've seen small operations make a good living. The number one thing to remember is pay as you go. It starts out slow but gains speed as you progress. I'm strictly placer mining now. An accident in 1999 crushed both kness and fractured L-3. 2 new knees and a fused back from L-1 to S-1 has put a stop to hard rock mining. I will follow up with small equipment later.


OL'29er <-thinking->   
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: johanssonsan on June 03, 2009, 01:42:08 PM
Anyone using Micro-Blaster? It is working in any direction using just a small drill.
Put out by ezebreak - 
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a205/LarryBC/microblaster1.jpg)
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: jbgandolf on November 23, 2010, 05:11:48 PM
It's been awhile since anyone has posted on this, but I'm  looking at this very subject. I have a vein 4-6 ft. wide with lots of quarter to half oz. per ton ore with high grade pockets. I know some about milling, but little about tunneling, mucking, and extracting the ore or regulations which in  Calif. I'm sure will be a pain. If anyone can reccommend any books or resources, I would greatly appreciate it. i have access to a machine shop, an electrician, and resources at a reasonable price, but need plans for building equipment, crushers, full size tables, feeders, etc.. Most my experience is dedging, but  I have know some hard rock miners (M&P) and pick their minds some, but I need alot more. Please help.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: mldave on November 23, 2010, 06:18:25 PM
Try Handbook for Prospectors by Pearl/or older editions by VonBernewitz..anywhere from$8-$50 online used/new...condition etc.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GollyMrScience on November 23, 2010, 07:26:47 PM
I think dropping back to the older books as suggested is an excellent way to do it. So many of the modern books are based on big budget and big development. The smaller guys get lost in the technology and the economics.
I have a couple of books to suggest as well.
They are written as general overviews of mining and basic technologies and are applicable in scale to what you are looking at.
Both books are by Koehler S. Stout
He was the Associate Dean of Engineering at the Montana College of Mineral Science and Technology
The first is titled
Mining Methods and Equipment
and the second is called
The Profitable Small Mine
both were copywritten in 1989
I do not know if he ever did revised editions but the basic stuff he covers is excellent
Lots of pictures and ideas especially for the small guy.
If you can tell us a little more about the vein you are on and the stage of development you are at you have a bunch of guys here who can help.
How much of the vein is exposed? Are you underground on it now? Has it been drilled? Is there any history on the vein from neighboring claims? Previous development?
Anything at all can help.
Before much in the way of equipment can be determined the nature of the ore needs to be understood. That makes for smart choices and less wasted money.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: jbgandolf on November 24, 2010, 06:21:20 PM
Thanks guys! The country rock is green stone. There been extensive work done in the area and this vein has been mined, but the last work was in 1898. At that time it was reported there was plenty of $4.00 ore but no one seem to be able to make a go of it, lack of power and water. They had a 40 stamp mill at the time, feed by this vein and another. The extent of tunnels and so forth I'm not sure but I'm guessing several thousand feet. Rich pockets were found on bends and turns in the vein. The vein is 4-6 ft. wide 150 ft. stope at a steep angle running NW with several other veins in the area running the same direction, most caring some value. From samples (a few pounds) it looks like a quarter to half oz. free milling gold. There were also sulfides discussed in the 1890s, but no value amounts. Most the stamp mills in this area went to 80 mesh, mercury plates and traps. Large pockets to fifty pounds were found.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Mad Machinist on October 30, 2011, 10:39:17 AM
THis post is the reason why I registered here in order to give some insight into what it takes to get a small hard rock operation started.

 Equipment:

 Currently very little is available to the small operation. And that equipment that is available isn't really tuned to small scale production. We have a small jaw crusher made by one of the leading manufacturers for the small guy and to be quite honest it is junk. I spend more time working on it than crushing rock. It is currently undergoing a complete redesign.

 Explosives:

 Forget about it. After almost a year of trying to get certified through our illustrious gov't organizations here in the States, I gave up and found a different way. The best option we have found is the microblaster, but it has it's disadvantages too. Face blasting has been limited to about a depth of 2 feet so far. THe center needs to be drilled at an inward angle and blasted out first in order to provide a "relief" for the rest of the face to be removed.

Permitting:

 Just a complete nightmare and we have an environemntal engineer on staff .

The big Boys:

 If you do manage to find something lucrative, then be ready to fight for it as the big boys will try to find anyway they can to "steal" it from you.

 Right now, we are finally gearing up for full scale mining after a two year process to get everything in order. We are running about 1.5 oz. per ton of silver and 4 ounces per ton of gold. According to core samples, there is a vein of native silver around 100 feet from the current face. At this time we do not know the extent of it as we have only had the vein cored 1000 feet from the current face and to a depth of 100 feet. Coring gets expensive real quick.

 Still what we have here now will last us a lifetime at the rate we are mining

Edit: typo on silver content. was 15 oz. per ton, should have been 1.5 oz per ton
 
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: ALDORADO on October 30, 2011, 02:30:27 PM
Well that sounds promising, thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Ohtaror on October 31, 2011, 03:26:55 PM
Since I'm not a native English speaker: "Mom & Pop" is just a term for a family company so in other words small scale? Or is there a stricter definition?

Interests me quite a lot since in my opinion this is way more fascinating than placers. Placers can be very rich and complex as well but a hard rock has some more magic and needs another form of mapping, structural control, etc.

But it appears to me from this thread that it becomes 'not done' in North America?
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Mad Machinist on November 02, 2011, 04:21:37 PM
Ohtaror,

 "Mom & Pop" refers to most little guys mining. It is usually a small family operation or a small group of people getting together to mine a claim.

 THe reason in is no longer as common here in the States is due to draconian environmental laws and a permit process that has been designed to deny all permits to anybody who does not have a lot of money backing them.

 Of course, when you have the big mining companies and the environemntalists on bed together, you end up with the little guy being squeezed out of the picture and the unemployment rate going through the roof.

 I know of quite a few small deposits of both silver and gold where permits were denied over crap and the claims were sold out to the big boys for a value equivalent to pennies on the dollar of the actual value of the deposit.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Guest on November 02, 2011, 06:01:55 PM
Been thinking about it, and a Mom and Pops operation, in my belief would be a small family type run operation, now even HARDROCK  mining this would be possible, ya know looking at things and not looking at trying to waste a mountain and make millions, but maybe a small knob of rock or running a drift chasing a quartz vein or something, SMALL SCALE  is what I'm talking, it is possible, just for folks looking to make a small comfortable living, not a few million a year, yup I do believe it is possible and theres ground out there somewhere to prove me right.... <-shock_> <-yahoo_> <-good_> <_miner_>..........Guest
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: ALDORADO on November 02, 2011, 07:41:43 PM
I agree and would like to think that there are a few fellows here that do get by on small scale mining alone?

Heck even the Hoffman's pulled 20 ounces in a summer and they ran most of the year without riffles.  <-thinking->

I would bet a little homework could replace a few of those guys and some of that machinery. (Not that it wouldn't be handy.)
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Guest on November 02, 2011, 07:45:50 PM
I know of a guy down around Cache Creek BC doing just that sort of thing, by himself, hard rock lode mining, seems to be making ends meet, KUDOS to  him, looking for something along those lines myself, keeping my eyes open, never know it might happen..............Guest
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Mad Machinist on November 04, 2011, 08:47:30 PM
 I fully believe that a small mom and pop could make a very good living if a few laws were changed. And there would be alot less damage to the environment due to smaller footprints.

Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: buckshotbob on November 04, 2011, 09:30:43 PM
Too you B.C. boys don,t let them take your mom and pop designation from you, here in ontario its impossible to do anymore LEGALLY.

If your getting away with it keep your gold close and your mouths closed.
B.C. HAS CREEKS SATURATED with mercury because of mom and pop mining.

To our american friends ,you guys got it made because you vote in your officials, here we are stuck with one pinhead after another.
This coming spring our mining act is changing and mining and mines are targeted to disappear.
enviromental is killing us on a daily basis thks to the global warming bull.

Ask our albertans where they get the oil from,  oilsands made from dinos and veg matter buried in the tar sands.
Question didn,t dinos live where it was really warm. I think the planet must have been a lot hotter then it is now for them to live that far north.
Sorry about the people we will lose in the 3rd world countries  along the oceans but please tell me what that has to do with mom and pop earning a non welfare paid living of the land.



Some al gorites might take offense to this but your ancesters were digging coal to keep their butts warm so you could be here to complain.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: buckshotbob on November 04, 2011, 09:35:53 PM
Grey wolf  i would bust rock on any mountain of your chosin with you just cause i aint no harley ridin yuppie either
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Mad Machinist on November 19, 2011, 07:59:12 AM
Bob,

 Funny thing about global warming is the fact that no one wants to include the fact that the Vikings were growing grapes in Greenland in the 1400's, we were in a mini ice age during the 1800's, and the fact that fossils are showing that the CO2 levels during the dino periods were 3000% higher that they are now. How else did those plants get so damn big?

 The biggest part of the problem is that everyone is thinking mining is still stuck in the 1800's and do not take into effect the advancements in technology used to minimize the impacts of mining. People need to understand that if it isn't grown then it is mined.

 Ban mining and let the idiots freeze to death in the dark.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: buckshotbob on November 23, 2011, 05:52:17 AM
  Silverfox  what i meant is because of old mining practices there is tons of residual mercyury still travelling down the creeks out the so getting some in your pans isn,t uncommon in certain areas
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: MadKate on November 23, 2011, 10:32:26 AM
I know several of the streams and rivers across the gold belt in Georgia have pools of mercury sitting in bands where the old "dams" used to be.  Dredgers have come in in the past and removed some, but not all and since there has been a ban on dredging in some of these locations, the mercury pools in the low spots and holes. 

I agree that old mining practices have made a mess of some things that were common and acceptable practices in the past, but with the modern tech that is available, miners have actually improved conditions because they pick it all up.  Lead and mercury is now being removed from the waterways...  If we could clean up the soil, we'd be highly sought after... Just not so sure I want to handle the contaminants of an EPA superfund site.   <-hypnotized->  :-*

I guess we really need to show the powers that be that we ain't the miners of that era but the new, improved and ecologically friendly miner of the future.  ::)  We all know how long that will take to convincing the bureaucrats that we are not the bad guys here... <-waiting->
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Golddigger Greg on November 23, 2011, 05:05:43 PM
Right you are Kate! <-good_> Maybe offering remedial services to the government that remove all those nasty heavy elements from the streambed... <-thinking-> How could the envirionutz be against that? [&whistle#]
Edit: Not all the mercury that ends up in the streambed was put there by man either, mother nature has placed a lot of it herself.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Mad Machinist on November 23, 2011, 06:47:11 PM
 THe problem with offering these services is the fact that mercury will from an amalgam with most precious metals. So in recovering these environmental hazards, you can actually make a very good living wothout their interference. And that is the problem.

 This very thing has been happeneing in California and Oregon. The State EPA departments actually set up collection points at miner's festivals to collect mercury. And it was becoming very successful. THe dredgers recovered the precious metals and turned the remaining mercury in so it wasn't contaminating the environment anymore. So in the infinite idiocy of our elected officials they banned dredging by small miners nder the guise of the mercury contaminating the environment by being stirred up by the dredgers. And then they made up a huge gov't program to use massive dredging platforms to remove the mercury from the rivers, and all the precious metals in the amalgams.

Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Golddigger Greg on November 23, 2011, 07:02:47 PM
 <-d'oh-> Shoulda known it's OK for them to do and illegal for us! What was I thinking? [^Crazy!#]
 [email protected]!#
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Mad Machinist on November 24, 2011, 08:40:24 AM
Greg,

 Now you understand why unemployment is so high. Our dear Gov't orgs don't care one whit about us, only lining their pockets.

 Small mines are the way forward, smaller footprints equal smaller hazards. Smaller mines equal less to reclaim. We are trying to get a small miner's org started here to give us a voice. Part of what we want to do is give some basic training on hardrockin'. With the price of metals being what they are, lots of new blood is coming into the industry and that increases the accident rate which is being used to drive the closure of these small mines.
 
 The biggest problem is what i said before. There is very little equipment available to the small miner. So improvisations are made, some of them end up being fatal.  Take a look at how many small miner's actually bolted the back or the ribs. Granted they didn't have the tech we have now, but that is being used to shut us out. With recent advancements, you no longer need a bolter to install bolts. Alot of the new bolts can be installed with a jack leg.

 How many small mines can afford an underground loader? So again, improvisations are made. I've seen alot of off the wall things used. I know a guy near here who is using a Kubota tractor underground WITHOUT any kind of ventilation or a CO alarm. The air monitor I were at all times when I'm underground went ballistic there. CO levels were well past the safe limits.

Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: MadKate on November 24, 2011, 05:35:17 PM
And every state has it's own regulations and mystical interpreters of vapors with regards to those regulations.  <-hypnotized->

Anyone get a chance to talk to the Oracle of Delphi lately?   ???  With the wording of some of these rules and regs, it's a wonder we don't have a temple to the bureaucratic god of mining complete with an entourage of priests and priestesses burning censers of incense, making offerings in red tape and gallons of ink...  :o

Oh wait... That was the Department of Environmental Services Surface Mining Permits office.  ::)  Sorry guys... My bad.   :-[
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Mad Machinist on November 26, 2011, 08:29:33 AM
Kate,

 While I was out and about last night, I ran into one of the State Mine Inspectors I know. We were talking about alot of issues between shots of Jack and this is what we come up with. Most of the State Offices have been taken over by the eco nazis and they want to ban mining completely. Another problem is the fact that there are no hard and fast rules to follow. They kinda make it up as they go along.

 I've been a machinist in many differnet mines for a long time now and I've seen one inspector give kudos on the way something was done and the next inspector start throwing around S&S citations for the same method.

 Another problem in the fact that most of the mining giants now support the eco nazis. They buy them off with big donations so they leave tham alone. This is what I am dealing with right now. This area has been cored down to 500 feet along a 3000 foot line and is still hitting chlorargyrite ore. This is shaping up to be a MAJOR strike. And this is why I am having so many problems. All the mining giants have offered to buy is out for a mere pittance of what this is worth. We refused and now the problems begin.

 

 
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: MadKate on November 26, 2011, 11:12:19 AM
And that is the crux of the problem.  Standardization of rules and regs.

With mine inspectors going by guidelines and making their seat-of-the-pants interpretations of those guidelines, I'm surprised we don't have more "cowboys" out there traipsing willy-nilly through mining sites taking their cut from the bigwig companies and shutting down the small operators so the bigwigs can move in and take over...

Clearly a case of cronyism and nepotism.  Wink Wink. Nudge Nudge.  Bob's yer uncle, Shake Shake.  Then there is the discreet passing of the unmarked envelope containing printed material passed off as currency of the Crown (for Canada) or that garbage they say is legal tender and backed by a lot of hot air, lies, and little much more here in the States.

 [email protected]!# {-censored-} {-censored-} {-censored-} ^#! ^#! ^#! {-censored-} <-frustrated->

I, for one, would love to see us return to Constitutional tender.  In God we trust, everyone else pays in gold. Problem with that is the banks have convinced us that money must make money so that is why we have interest rates... That's called usury and it is against Biblical Law.  I have little use for banks any more and I don't keep much money in one.  It's cash and carry...   <-sealed_>

Dag... Sorry... I got carried away on that and totally wandered off on a tangent.   :-[

Back to the subject. 

We as miners, hobbyists and small scale, need to band together as a united group.  I'm not talking about joining some group and paying dues so you can wander around their picked over claim sites.  I'm talking with serious political pull and lobbyists to fight for us (like the NRA does for gun owners) and get things moving to protect our rights and get a standardized set of rules (not guidelines) for mining on the smaller scale that can be used in all 50 states, territories, commonwealths and whatever else we got. 

I realize this is a Canadian based forum and they got a mess of rules too... But I don't know Canadian law and when it comes to mining in the US, I barely scratch the surface with understanding the rules in my own state...  There is something we should be able to do about this.

I'm gonna stop now and go hide under my tarp and see if I can play with a few pounds of tailings before I go volunteering myself for something I have no idea how to approach and deal with.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Mad Machinist on November 27, 2011, 07:51:57 AM
Kate,

 THis is the only group I now of and they have had quite a few successes. Pass the word.


PUBLIC LANDS FOR THE PEOPLE - A 501(c)(3) tax deductible non-profit organization (http://plp1.org/accomplishments.html)


Mike
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Golddigger Greg on November 27, 2011, 08:28:15 AM
Good call on the PLP! The work they are doing is invaluable to everyone that has a stake in the use of Public Lands.
They are the worthy recipients of the 2011 'Golddigger Greg Go-Git-Em' award and bursary. [-1st-]
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: MadKate on November 27, 2011, 02:43:16 PM
Kate,

 THis is the only group I now of and they have had quite a few successes. Pass the word.


PUBLIC LANDS FOR THE PEOPLE - A 501(c)(3) tax deductible non-profit organization (http://plp1.org/accomplishments.html)


Mike

Took a look and I will have to email them to see if they have anything in Georgia.  What I did see, the majority of their work is out west.  We'll see what they have to say.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: Mad Machinist on November 28, 2011, 04:11:44 PM
GOt some good news.

 Wildlaw, an eco law firm, is out of business. Carl Pope, head of the Sierra Club recently resigned over discontent on the groups direction  and The Wilderness Society cut staff by 17% (total of 31% over the last year) due to lack of donations, well organized opponenets (namely us) and a serious drop in membership. And another eco group is getting hell rained on them that may result in criminal charges.

 Interesting times, eh?
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: GPEX admin on November 28, 2011, 04:30:52 PM
Good news for certain !  And where applicable, it goes to show what can be done when birds-of-a-feather all stand up together.  We are a wayward bunch, forever seeking our own path to travel upon, however, if desiring the golden walkway, we need organization, commitment and joint participation.  Locally, cross-borders and across the globe.  As WE all know, this world would stop turning if mining were halted – I guess it’s up to Us to educate THEM.  Whence our uphill journey crests that peak, ‘tis then we may pause and revel over our accomplishments.
Title: Re: Pros and Cons of a Mom & Pop Hardrock Operation
Post by: MadKate on November 28, 2011, 07:47:56 PM
I don't know about y'all but getting tot he top of the hill just gives me the chance to see what's ahead.  ;)