CANADIAN GOLD PROSPECTING FORUM - Gold Prospecting Forums

Gold Prospecting Forums - General => Chat & Everything Else => Topic started by: Top Cat on February 17, 2019, 07:25:14 AM

Title: You Tubers
Post by: Top Cat on February 17, 2019, 07:25:14 AM
First off the following is not aimed at anyone person on this Forum.

I just found out why people want you to "Subscribe" to their videos on YouTube, because the more subscribers and followers and likes they get, the person get paid. Oce they reach a certain number "commercials" are put into them.

Folks there is big money in making videos and some Tuber's even have the balls to ask for a donation ($) to help them make more videos.

My daughter knows a woman that made $380,000.00 last year, mind you she has a ton of "Subscribers".

Maybe the Gold is not in the ground but is in making videos for Youtube?

Just my thoughts and opinion.
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: mcbain on February 17, 2019, 08:09:53 PM
Hi.Top cat you are so right.But for some reason this forum allows it.I have nothing against watching you tube vids but advertising and solicting money should be  banned.If i remember correctly claims are not to be sold on this site.I do believe  that was directed at commercial guys.I put Youtubers asking for patreons in that catorgory.So you tubers looking for support should keep Patreons to your you tube sites.I think Admin would agree with this.Luck Mcbain.
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: geezir on February 17, 2019, 10:35:32 PM
To be fair most of the ewe-pipers on this forum are on topic.  2 photos and 45 words that takes 14 seconds to understand or a 20 minute UT video with chalk-board scratching noise called music and a buffoon yelling while they jump up an down. They don't make much off me! Anyhow the inter-web  has changed a lot. I remember when Google was a search engine. Heck I remember when you made your own spider to search. Search engines are a thing of the past. Now there are only sales engines.  EOR
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: DharmaSoldat on February 18, 2019, 07:35:24 AM
I'm with Geezir in the sense that I haven't really seen any pandering going on and that things are mostly on-topic.

I also think it's fine that people want to make money in this fashion, just like the merchants and shovel-and-wheelbarrow salesmen of old.

The thing that gets me with youtube and the people who make money off it by broadcasting their hobbies, interests, etc. is that when people start doing it for money, they start to leave their identity of miner, maker, etc. and turn into a "movie producer" - which, as much as it is nice to have some entertainment with your hobby, it tends to go really over the top and become more about the youtubing than the actual hobby itself.

Some of the most memorable videos have been the most low key ones - like a lot of Two Toes' stuff or Dan Hurd's teaching series. I think they'd rank among some of the best and most useful content I've watched on youtube.

Anyways. Just my two cents.


Steven
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: diamond jim on February 18, 2019, 08:11:16 AM
Where do people get this bull****? I have a Youtube channel. It was monetized. Over 3 years I made $36.00. Last year Youtube cancelled all monetization of channels with less than 100,000 subscribers. Very few channels have that many, especially in the mining industry. Making videos is a big job, and a pain in the butt. You're all lucky that a few people step up and make the effort.
Jim
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: suburbanator on February 18, 2019, 09:31:56 AM
My Take?   

IF your making a good video and trying to give something back,  take what you can get.  After all the Youtubers are not asking me personally for money,  they simply get paid adverts at some point..big deal.

Asking for a donation to a Patreon account also doesn't bother me.  I tried to release some videos,  honestly to make a poor 5 minute you tube video with a little bit of editing, some titles etc still takes an hour,   a good video I imagine takes much more.   Plus every time I am grabbing  the drone or camera to film,  I am not doing what I want to be,  which is digging or hiking.
I would bet that some of the more well known youtube prospectors spend 6-8 hours per video in just production.

Maybe a shout out in the videos to the places your advertising? but even that is not required IMO.

Youtube on!



Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: tonofsteel on February 18, 2019, 09:35:17 AM
People trying to sell their wares on forums are usually required to pay to be an advertiser/sponsor.  From my understanding this structure exists so that the forum providing the traffic/sales to the business get a bit of money for providing this opportunity.

The problem with Youtube is it is hard to determine whether or not it is a business.  It can be really hard to draw that line.  If someone is posting videos for the purpose to share their knowledge and experiences as a hobby and are not monetized then this is not really a business (yet).

Where do you draw the line after that?  As it was mentioned going out and creating videos is not only a lot of work but it also takes away from whatever you are doing since you have to divert some of your attention to making good shots.  There are also extra costs with recording gear and editing software, time spent editing etc.  So if someone gets enough of a following and gets monetized is this a business or compensation for a hobby like the gold you find prospecting?  Is it a fair exchange for the time and effort the producer puts into creating content?  As diamond jim said the money you get when you are small time is not very much at all.  Some niche topics like mining/prospecting don't get that many subs or views to make producing videos alone ever worthwhile monetarily.

But if these arguments are brought up then what is the intent of the channel.  Is it to share your knowledge/experience/adventures solely from your passion of the hobby or is the ultimate goal to make a profit?  Some channels are started just to share and others are started with the goal of making money off of it.  We don't know what the numbers or intentions are behind the scenes so it is hard to figure out if a channel is a really a business or not.

So then what if you start asking for patreon donations?  What about selling stuff on the side related to the videos?  What about affiliate commissions and product placement?  At some point it is less about sharing and more about creating a brand, advertising and generating sales.  Some build businesses around Youtube videos alone and others use it to drive traffic/sales to their products (physical, services, digital)

I don't have a problem with someone sharing content, asking for donations and making some money to cover costs of equipment, time, travel etc.  But at the same time I think it is only fair if you are making a profit that you pay to become an advertiser since you are using forum resources to drive sales either directly or indirectly.  If you go into something expecting to be compensated for your knowledge/skills then you should be compensating others that are helping you out.

At some point either intentionally or unintentionally a hobby channel can turn into a business over time.  I think it is favorable for the people who have channels and are trying to transition into profitable revenue streams that they become sponsors/advertisers on their own accord.  It would make me respect what they are trying to do a lot more.

Of course this line between hobby/business can be a hard one to draw, should you tubers have to follow the same structure and cost as other advertisers or since the margins can be a lot smaller should there be a separate class set up for them?  But then again maybe not, as with any business the revenues can be small or huge but advertising is advertising.
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: suburbanator on February 18, 2019, 01:13:19 PM
I was not around when this website was founded,  so I can't speak to the morals and rules employed by its founders.  But safe to say the "times are a changin" and social media is a large part of most hobbies.. (Message boards are NOT).

The  contributors with the most to offer of late have been YouTubers,  and once my Youtube channel goes live this spring I guess I will be lumped into the same category and will be un-welcome here unless I pay?

1.  If you have a real job,  in Real life and it has nothing to do with Prospecting,  Equipment or Mining... then POST away...  link the heck outta your channel, I don't care if you make a buck.  Chances are the $40.00 you get from Youtube channel works out to $2/hr once you've filmed and edited.  Bottom line is these youtube videos help thousands more than most of the banter on this website does.  That my opinion.

2.  You sell mining equipment,  claims,  or something mining related as your main source of income....  Sponsor the site.

What some of you are saying is that Dan,  all the Gold Chasers guys (CMMC, Knucklebuster etc),  Pauly and others are not really welcome here unless they sponsor the site.. and that's like shooting yourself in your foot.  We need more contributions from users like these,  not less.

Could you not argue that someone with a good YouTube channel or the ability to produce a good video isn't contributing content?  Arguably more valuable than sponsorship.

Sponsor the site??  that brings up anther topic...  I have ran at least 6 websites over the last decade from NPO ones to business ones...  honestly whats that cost... $150 a year for hosting? and maybe $1000 a year if you have to pay an admin. (Not usually needed).

If the site wants to raise some $$$ then charge $10.00 fee for people that want to be "premium members" or something or "honorary members".. .make it $20.00 and give them a sticker for their car or whatever like all the 4x4 sites do.  lol..

Anyhow... rant over..





Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: tonofsteel on February 18, 2019, 02:19:27 PM
I am not in favor of allowing or disallowing it, I am just looking at it from both sides wondering where the compromise would be.  Businesses generally have to pay for the opportunity to advertise, promote and sell.  People just sharing videos of what they are up to don't.  I am wondering where this line is?

For sure I have watched great content on Youtube and I appreciate the effort and time that people put into doing this.  Having this videos made and shared is a good thing for prospecting to pass on the knowledge and hobby.

Quote
once my Youtube channel goes live this spring I guess I will be lumped into the same category and will be un-welcome here unless I pay

There is not one category here that I can see, there is the well meaning person sharing their knowledge and adventure and then there is the:

I create a Youtube channel and started making "informative" videos.  The links I post on this forum are ones that would fall within the guidelines and are only showing my adventures, panning technique etc.  Meanwhile I have links in my video descriptions to the products and services I sell, my other videos are promoting my products and I am getting free product or paid for product placement and for me to make product recommendations on the video.  Obviously all of this is a niche area and to reach my audience using prospecting forums would be a good way to drive traffic to my products via Youtube.

The thing that bothers me a bit is when an "innocent well meaning" user starts posting videos but they might not be so well meaning and are using it as an indirect loophole way to drive sales.  Few fall into this category and the ones that do for the most part are sponsors of the site.  This is actually a marketing strategy, to give information away for free to affect your customers psychologically to be more open to doing business with you.  (principle of reciprocity)  So at what point do you draw the line between a hobby Youtube producer, a professional Youtuber and a marketing campaign?

The only thing that compelled me to post is remember that some of the first videos I watched were from Gold Hog before I even knew what Gold Hog was.  It was on panning technique and the science behind how sluices work.  He could use the same argument and post these informative videos and not sponsor the site under the argument that this is more valuable than sponsorship.  Once I was on his channel and watched his other videos it did not take long before I was convinced about buying certain products from him.  I don't know his own personal reason why he decided to sponsor and become and advertiser on the site and not try to work around the requirements but it just seems more upstanding to me.

I am not against Youtube creators or videos or making money off of it, just to me looks a little odd when the line between honest videos and marketing campaigns is blurred and it is hard to tell if they are trying to sell you something or just share something.  That context is important because many would trust someone more who is sharing something without looking to make a sale.  If somewhere down the marketing funnel there is an expected potential sale then there is obvious bias and influence that will be a part of the content.  (subconscious or not)
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: poncho on February 18, 2019, 03:31:29 PM
Well said tonofsteel  That is good and decent thinking to have  Sharing knowledge for free is a love of their prospecting life
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: JOE S (INDY) on February 18, 2019, 03:43:36 PM
I guess first and foremost point here is to say that the CGPF does have sponsors, who pay a fee (I have nothing to do with that sort of stuff so I don't know specifics).  Having  payed that fee, the new sponsor has (other than bragging rights) their logo on the left under "Advertisers".  They also have the added  privilege of presenting their websites and products, if they wish, to everyone here as a commercial vendor.   

An additional point is that any member may, as an individual, offer their personal property for sale to the general membership.  The usually and preferred place to do that is in the "Miners' Mall Classified" sub-forum.   http://gpex.ca/smf/index.php?board=24.0   

So far that's pretty HooHum stuff, right?   [&whistle#]

Lastly comes the (usually) brand new members who immediately start advertising their who-knows-what products for sale. You all must have seen that form of SPAM somewhere in the past. 

We-don't-tolerate-that-here, Period! 

So there you go -

1.  Offerings of commercial sales allowed by sponsors only.

2.  Individual, personal sales by any member.

3.  Someone who sneaks in just to SPAM the forum are out-the-door, forever.

Lets address that "Links to Utube" situation now.   

Other than a link to a commercial site it certainly is allowed.  If I choose to click on a link and leave CGPF to watch a video by ("  Helooooo Daaaan!"  ) someone like Dan Hurd by clicking on a utube link from a post of his then that is MY choice and responsibility.  I happen to feel that links to excellent, relevant videos by folks like Dan are a REAL asset here, and we're lucky to have the ability to draw and be able to share them.

In choosing to go to Utube from CGPF I remove myself from any involvement here - and - if I subscribe, sponsor, like, dislike, comment or do anything else there it has nothing at all to do with CGPF.  All of that is strictly between the viewer (like me) and the video presenter ( Helooooo Daaaan!). 

Any arrangements that someone like (for example) Dan makes with Utube are 100% removed from the CGPF and I can't see why anyone would feel that we need to discuss those sorts of unrelated things here. 

So, have I stirred up some heartburn or have I just made sense?   <-dont~know->

Joe




   
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: tonofsteel on February 18, 2019, 05:21:22 PM
There is a difference between personal Youtube posting and Youtube as a marketing tactic.  While it may not be as obnoxious as a direct link to a commercial product, Youtube videos can be used as part of a marketing strategy with affiliate links, product promotions, direct and indirect links to the publishers products and services.

The thing that gets me is not about Youtubers or the monetization.  It is if you post a direct link to a product or service this is bad but if you create a Youtube video and use some clever marketeering to accomplish the same it is OK.

If you are using your posts on the forum to ultimately drive a sales funnel for business interests I don't see the difference between a direct link, instagram post, Youtube video, free ebook, VHS tape, promotional pens, marketing giveaways etc.  Whoever is using the forum for sales and marketing should be bound by the same rules is what I would have thought.
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: mcbain on February 18, 2019, 08:05:36 PM
Hi.Guys Ihave to agree with Joe and several others.Nothing wrong with posting your you tube site.you leave the forum and go to youtube.Now if you were to make a post asking for money paterons support and keeping  it inside the forum that would be wrong.Example.Mcbain makes a post asking for donations so Mcbain can keep posting and pay his internet bill.If you liked Mcbain you might make a donation.but that would be totally wrong because Mcbain is trying to solicit monies from the forum members.And then Mcbain takes it a step farther and tries to sell his panning techniuge to unsupecting members for a profit using the forum.You all get the point.So far nobody has tried to do this that i know of.Luck Mcbain.
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: tonofsteel on February 21, 2019, 09:17:06 AM
I stand corrected.  In the eyes of the powers that be it is all fair game as Joe outlined.

Youtube On!
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: graeme1955 on February 21, 2019, 10:17:04 AM
I could not agree with you more Tonofsteel, well said, I watched Doc before I knew he owned Gold Hog, and I am still impressed with his videos, from an educational view I think they are excellent. I do not use or promote his product, but he does do a great job to back up his product, and also a great sponsor for this site, I do think he offers a good product, and if I was inclined to purchase products for myself, I might choose his just for the information and science he has shown in his videos. 
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: sunshine on February 22, 2019, 02:03:57 PM
I have a small Youtube channel.  I enjoy taking viewers along on my adventures and projects.  My videos have an ad at the beginning.   One of my videos had 1.3M views and it didn't result in very much ad revenue.  On the other hand, many of my videos have less than 2K views.  Very few people on Youtube are getting rich.  It is a risky venture because income is not guaranteed.  I do it for fun.  When it is no longer fun, I will stop making videos and delete the channel. 

Heck, I would do it full time if i could.  I respect those who have made it a career and I can tell you they need multiple income streams to survive.  Merch is a big one and probably the most dependable.  You never know when Youtube is going to make a change that negatively affects your channel.  Other sites like Patreon can also shut you down on their platform  in an instant.  For example, wear a MAGA hat and see how long you last these days.

I am glad that the rules on this site regarding posting were clarified.  It never occured to me that someone would be upset to learn there was a new prospecting video posted.  I love watching Youtube and find some of the most interesting videos and creators from posts on this and other forums.  That is how I found D'Arcy years ago.  You sure cannot trust the Youtube and Google to recommend prospecting content, even when subscribed.  Instead, they seem to promote trending viral videos, late night talk shows and mainstream media content.

Greig





Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: Top Cat on February 23, 2019, 07:11:57 AM
Sorry guys I did not want to open a hornets nest, and as I said in my first post this is not aimed at anyone person on this forum .

What I was indicating was that I do not support solicitation of funds from tubers. I too have learned a lot from the knowledge of others. by watching their videos.

I am sure it is time consuming and  expensive to make them but that's their choice whether it is their hobby or living. Just don't ask for money to support it.

My hobby is gold panning I don't ask for your help to put gas in my car so I can go more often.

Just my opinio.

 
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: mcbain on February 23, 2019, 08:37:19 PM
Well said Ron.But as Joe has indicated once you click on the youtube link you have left GPEX and it is another realm.Yes some are using the forum as a door and for most of us that seems to be wrong.But that is the way it is.I am sure that if Admin gave a hoot he would do something about it.Just saying,Luck Mcbain.
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: diamond jim on February 24, 2019, 06:58:11 AM
Sorry guys I did not want to open a hornets nest, and as I said in my first post this is not aimed at anyone person on this forum .

What I was indicating was that I do not support solicitation of funds from tubers. I too have learned a lot from the knowledge of others. by watching their videos.

I am sure it is time consuming and  expensive to make them but that's their choice whether it is their hobby or living. Just don't ask for money to support it.

My hobby is gold panning I don't ask for your help to put gas in my car so I can go more often.

Just my opinio.

I've never asked for money, but there's a big difference between asking for money to support your prospecting, and asking for money to support the making of videos the person enjoys. Not only that, but why do you care what somebody else does? How does someone's asking impact you?  IMHO, the best policy, for me,  is to let people alone unless what they're doing is costing me time, money, etc.
Jim
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: Youtuber Dan on March 03, 2019, 04:17:21 PM
Hellooo Everyone!  Just noticed this topic.  Interesting conversation.  It got me thinking, so I went over to YouTube analytics to have a look.  In the last 3 months I have had 485 views from this forum.  Considering I make less than 0.35 cents per view. That has me making 57 cents per month from posting to this forum.  And that is assuming those people would not watch my video anyways.  I don't post here to make money.  I post here to try and contribute to this community.
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: tonofsteel on March 03, 2019, 05:57:38 PM
Hellooo Everyone!  Just noticed this topic.  Interesting conversation.  It got me thinking, so I went over to YouTube analytics to have a look.  In the last 3 months I have had 485 views from this forum.  Considering I make less than 0.35 cents per view. That has me making 57 cents per month from posting to this forum.  And that is assuming those people would not watch my video anyways.  I don't post here to make money.  I post here to try and contribute to this community.

I don't think this was the point trying to be made, at least not from me.  I don't have any issues with people creating videos and sharing them.  I have no problem if they make $10,000 a month from the clicks, I would actually be happy because obviously you are creating great content and reaching an audience.  And why shouldn't you get compensated for all the work you put into it?  Making good content people want to watch is not easy nor is it cheap.  It is not about the monetization from Youtube yet the conversation always goes back to that point.

If I call myself youtuber badpanner and then invite you to watch my videos and share them on here, fair enough right?  I will try to put out good content on technique, equipment and my travels.  Meanwhile I have a plan.  I am trying to move a shipping container full of product, say a new pan design I call the badpan.  I have a ecommerce store but nobody is showing up.  I am looking for a group of people who are interested in prospecting as they would be more likely to buy.  I could go to social media and start a marketing campaign or I could join forums and pay to sponsor so I can have a link to my store and advertise my product.  But this costs money and I am cheap.

So instead I use Youtube and subtly include my products and plug them.  I include links with all my videos so anyone watching will end up at my store if they are interested in checking it out.  This is actually an advantage because I can engineer the videos with marketing in mind that will help drive traffic more so than just a dumb banner ad.  People watching me use my amazing pan and how much gold it recovers will get them looking into where they can get one too.  I then gather a following and make deals with other equipment manufacturers to place their product in my videos for a cost, whether that is free equipment in exchange for the promotion or a cut of the sales.

Now when I am posting my Youtube videos they are actually part of my business, I am marketing gold pans and I have found a sales funnel to get people to my store.  I have effectively used the forum audience for marketing and sales purposes without having to pay for the privilege.  I hide behind my youtuber badpanner name saying back off bro, I am just making videos here, what's the big deal?  Did you learn to pan from my video? Thought so, now go fly a kite.

I do not own the forum or have any financial interest in it so I don't really care either way but I just wonder why sponsors have to pay to market their product and business interests but Youtubers don't.  The question gets asked once you are selling something and you are linking to it and promoting it in your videos.

If you make a billion dollars from your Youtube views that does not matter here since obviously by clicking on a Youtube link everyone is well aware of what this means and the monetary implications this has.  If I post a youtube link and 10 members from this forum end up buying my badpan then I found a clever way to work around the sponsorship rules.  If those 10 members then tell others and I make 100 sales from word of mouth then I have started to achieve what I set out to do, a successful marketing campaign.

I am not saying anyone is or isn't but it is just an honest question.   It was never really about the clicks or Youtube it was about using the forum members for marketing purposes to sell a product or service and why one way you have to pay but another you don't.  Nothing really to do with Youtube even, it could be a link to your own "personal" blog post where you are pulling off the same thing.  You are just a "blogger" but it is a thinly veiled attempt to sell something.

Joe clarified and said that in the eyes of the forum a link to a video is a black hole, once you go there anything goes.  Which makes the whole discussion null and void.  While some may question the practice, it is accepted here.  Fine by me, I asked a question and got an answer.
Title: Re: You Tubers
Post by: mcbain on March 03, 2019, 08:28:32 PM
Hi.Guys.Remember the 60s and 70s and black and white T.V. all the sitcoms and shows like as the world turns.Evey house wife had to have a 19inch box to watch and it was gods gospel truth.because the box said so.Many a divorce over that stupid box.Today we have  social media and google and all sorts of garbage we do not need and many a divorce over that stupid box we call something else but the whole world falls for its lies and deciets.This stupid little box tells you how to live your live an even tells you when to eat ,tells you when to take a crapIf you succump to it  It reads your mind.Just like youtubeSome thing to think about YoutubersThe box controls likes and dislikes you do not..