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Gold Prospecting Forums - General => Tech Talk => Topic started by: NickD on April 30, 2016, 08:22:57 AM

Title: GPS
Post by: NickD on April 30, 2016, 08:22:57 AM
Does anyone here use GPS devices?

I thought it could be helpful to find my way back to promising outcrops (I'm mostly focussing on hard-rock here in Ontario) since it's mostly dense forest and easy to get disoriented. I could be helpful for doing a bit of local mapping too if it's accurate enough. That's the thing though, I'm not sure if GPS devices are accurate enough (especially under thick forest cover) to be worth the bother.
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: jobinyt on April 30, 2016, 08:32:55 PM
Common consumer grade GPS is not accurate enough for survey work. Beyond that though, for relocating something it'll work fine. For going to coordinates you've taken from a map the limitation is likley more getting an  accurate coordinate than the ability of the GPS.  Most units give te ability to avarage a positions coordinates - just let the system sit there a couple minutes and those things that tend to cause the coordinates shift slightly average out. Even so, I've seem some day-to-day variations that cause concern in setting/taking claim posts. So, not perfect, but highly useful, good enough for don't-get-lost uses, very helpful for finding benchmarks and such, and if you're patient and double/triple check your results, good enough for anything you're likely to want that doesn't require a certified survey. Also, looking at a bunch of waypoints on your screen can reveal things you might not realize wandering around on the ground. And oh boy, in flat/featureless country they are grand.
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: NickD on May 02, 2016, 08:38:29 PM
Thanks for the answer.

I generally can figure out where I am give or take a couple hundred meters, and when I can't, I can still find my way out of the woods. However, it's happened once or twice that I couldn't find my way back to a small outcrop, and more importantly, having a hard time getting a feel for where all the outcrops are in relation to each other, ex is it multiple outcrops of the same vein, or multiple parallel veins; or helping pin-point geological contacts and faults. So it wouldn't be for any official surveys, just for my own purposes like benchmarks.
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: steve 009 on May 07, 2016, 09:05:43 AM
Good Morning Ore Hunter I was wondering which GPS you would recommend as I am looking to buy one Thank You Steve
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: azau on May 07, 2016, 10:55:32 AM
Does anyone here use GPS devices?

I thought it could be helpful to find my way back to promising outcrops (I'm mostly focussing on hard-rock here in Ontario) since it's mostly dense forest and easy to get disoriented. I could be helpful for doing a bit of local mapping too if it's accurate enough. That's the thing though, I'm not sure if GPS devices are accurate enough (especially under thick forest cover) to be worth the bother.

GPS signals are radio waves and travel easily through trees.   According to the following  the accuracy is within 20 to thirty feet and probably good enough to allow you to get close enough to re-find geological features  http://www.gps-basics.com/faq/q0116.shtml
If you have traveled a pretty fair distance since last turning it on then you may need to turn it on and let it sit for a while to let it re-orient itself.  Box canyons may hinder signal reception since the device needs a line of sight view to at least three satellites and the canyon walls may block out some satellites that would be viewed in a less steep and tight terrain.
Choose a GPS that is within your budget  as the main differences are usually for features that you may not need or use.

PS:  My, probably now 20 to 25 year old, Magellan is my favorite and most amazing toy ever along with being extremely useful.   
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: GoldRetrieving on May 22, 2016, 05:39:17 AM
A GPS will certainly help with your prospecting plan and understanding the lay of the land. You will be surprised when you enter coordinates for outcrops and take sometime to study them and look for connections. I never leave home without it.
I have had two Garmins over the years, they have served me well mounted on snowmobile, atv and belt carried.
GR  <-good_>
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: Norbert77 on May 23, 2016, 06:46:08 AM
Once I knee the area I wanted to stake, I put the coordinates into Garmin basecamp,  moved it to my garmin 62 s, then head out with the gps and a good compass. 

I set my track from post 1 to post 2, then I had a nice solid line that I could follow over hilly, rough terrain.  The first day I only covered 600 meters, it worker well enough, but a compass is a must because the garmin internal compass over time reverts to magnetic  north instead of true north; my position was 10.4 degrees of for true  Orth,  and sometimes if I looked on my claim line I'd  notice it wasn't taking me in the direction it had been.  On the screen I could see when I ventured off the track too, at least that part worked.  I found that once every few hour I had to do a compass calibrate procedure.
Once used to touch screen units the rudimentary button were a pain to get used to, especially for inputting data, but it worked out alright.  My one claim was only out 2 meters it's length, the long one, over 2 km, it was out 5 meters between corner post 2 and 3 because trees suitable to make posts  were not as available as I would have liked.

The 62s has an external antenna, supposed to be much better than internal ones.  And the screen is thicker than a touch screen, no need to worry about breaking it when dropping, which happens when you're carrying chainsaws, compass, backpack, and other gear.

The 62st is more and has an I ternary topography map.  Save your money and buy a Backroad Mapbook for your province, much, much better.  It lists old abandoned logging roads and trails and more- really is worth checking out
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: mcbain on May 24, 2016, 07:19:01 PM
Hi.Guys.A little humour here.A good silva ranger with the correct declination setting for your area  will not drive you off the dock into the salt chuck.Your feet will let you know.Luck Mcbain.
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: HauntedxAu on March 12, 2017, 10:20:24 AM
Inreach Explorer. Now owned by Garmin. New product released Feb 2017. Also allows for satellite communication, texting only. 

http://www.inreachcanada.com (http://www.inreachcanada.com)
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: mcbain on March 12, 2017, 07:40:38 PM
Got a gps story?Lets hear it.Last summer I came across some asian tourists.Totally lost.They waved me down.All spoke excellent English so no problems talking.They set their GPS for hells gate and ended up on my claim on highway 5, the coq.Miles out of there way.I told them they had to go back to Hope and take hwy#1.Buy this time they were very confused and did not know where Hope was.I asked if they could read a map.The older gent said he could.I showed them where we were at and where they had to go.The old gent said he had it figured out and wanted to buy the map.I gave it to him and said enjoy your trip and never trust a GPS to work.He agreed and in a whole bunch of gibberish tore his son a new one.Luck Mcbain
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: kcm on March 13, 2017, 04:29:38 AM
That's funny!

Not sure if it still happens, but in the past, most GPS units sitting on our place show that they're up in Canada somewhere.  <-dont~know->

kcm
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: mcbain on March 13, 2017, 06:23:38 PM
Hi.Keith.I have fun with this.Mto wants gps cords on a claim.Just  look at their screwed up maps and the fighting that goes on when no 2 units read the same.This is happening often.Try to imagine a air liner pilot or ships captian telling folks buckle up we will be landing/docking in Tim buck 2 in 5 minutes.Sorry folks we got to ditch apparantly Tim buck 2  has moved elsewhere.It is a lot like any electronic device these days.Cell phone, computor.T.V.,thermostat or fridge,Home door locks.If it is electronic they can hack it and rape you.Why mess with a gps?Just becuase they can and they get great enjoy ment out of messing with folks.Lets say you used a gps unit to check your property bdys.Bingo you just been recorded on a hackers computer.Fairly safe unless you got something to steal.and believe me they will steal it eventually.Luck Mcbain.
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: kcm on March 13, 2017, 09:00:56 PM
Yep, but one day it's going to be so accurate that it'll be the only accepted means of marking a claim. ...Not sure I wanna live THAT long though!  <-laugh->

In more built-up places, another technology that's coming up in ranks is getting coordinates via triangulation using cell towers. Is very precise in most areas. Unfortunately, not a lot of cell towers in most mining areas.

kcm
Title: Flake
Post by: flake on March 13, 2017, 09:18:54 PM
I use an app called maps brut. It saves  tiles  from Google Earth so you can use them offline. It's not on Google play  but if you email  me I'll  send you a copy. I also  use an app called Canada Maps off Google play. Maps brute is simpler  to use on a cellphone with android 4 or lower but I use it on a Samsung Galaxy 2 because  of the screen that is great in full sunlight. Lasts year I used it to find a white spot I could see on Google Earth on my claim. Turned out to be a patch  of white flowers.



Title: Flake
Post by: flake on March 13, 2017, 09:56:30 PM
Well sorry  for the screw up. If someone  knows how to get rid of  this post delete  it. Watching TV and surfing on a tablet dosent  work.
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: mcbain on March 14, 2017, 08:50:55 PM
Hi.Guys.I just checked my claim co-ords on google.Apparantly I packe up and moved 900 meters south.This scares the hell out of me.I just updated to the newest google earth. and it is a mile off.Now all these self driving cars they are about to turn loose run off google sat co-ords.Where the hell is that car going when it comes to a sharp bend that the sat says is not there yet.Death destruction and total chaos.Yea the guy in the seat can overide it if he is  paying attention and fast at the wheel but folks tend to get lax and rely on their toys.These things run on googles gps system.Say no more.Luck Mcbain.
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: geezir on March 30, 2017, 12:45:02 PM
Does anyone here use GPS devices?

I thought it could be helpful to find my way back to promising outcrops (I'm mostly focussing on hard-rock here in Ontario) since it's mostly dense forest and easy to get disoriented. I could be helpful for doing a bit of local mapping too if it's accurate enough. That's the thing though, I'm not sure if GPS devices are accurate enough (especially under thick forest cover) to be worth the bother.

Consumer GPS will work for what you want.
The two main causes of error in the device come from No. 1. Atmosphere and No. 2. Multipath.
Most device from 2009 and on will get a signal in forest. Example Garmin etrex first editions will lose signal in forest but if the unit has sensors (compass & barometer) they will continue to work.
The Garmin 60CSx chip a great improvement over prior models. The 62 and 64 series followed the 60 series.
WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System)
This system aids in unit precision by sending needed data to the unit to adjust for time & sat-path errors or atmospheric condition. The broadcast satellites are in a Clark orbit ( Satellite TV stationary orbit) The orbit are at 98W,  107W, and 133W. Use a Satellite TV  site to obtain the azimuth and horizon angle from the exploration area. With clear sky to WAAS the unit should report -3m precision.  That -3m information should last for some time even if WAAS signal contact is lost.
Multipath error
This is error caused by the sat signal bouncing off objects, the ground being the most common but in forest cover there is a lot of deflection. That is where the sensors can help the device's precision.
There are sites (Trimble) that report the number and location of Sats but in most case there is a good compliments of sats in the sky at any given time.
The GPS is designed to calculate its location on the WGS84 datum. (Google Earth) If the unit is set to another datum the coordinates may be wrong.
One of the most common errors made is using the incorrect datum (in this case datum means a mathematical model of earth)
As a final note do not over spent. GPS III (was due for 2014) is finally in process and should be operational by 2018. The system promises to improve precision.
I use Garmin not because they make the "best" units. GPS are a lot like the PC industry. The chips in the units are not made by device makes. In fact many GPS units use the same chips. They manufactures like PC manufactures make the operating system. And years ago the Garmin OS was reversed engineered and a number of programs were made to create maps for the Garmin. My daughter went on a trip to Great Britain. I went to open street maps and downloaded the Garmin GPS data and they used it for highway and hiking. Check the OSM maps for exploration area. 
This is the OSM for Windy Lake area (500m) 1:2500 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/46.5879/-81.4356 (http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/46.5879/-81.4356)
Hope that helps you get started.
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: Computer Technician on November 14, 2019, 06:01:56 PM
I have this one , it is good for everything . 8)
Works perfectly , won't lose signal even in the building
 has  signal in my apartment :)
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: Computer Technician on November 14, 2019, 06:11:09 PM
I have this one , it is good for everything . 8)
Works perfectly , won't lose signal even in the building
 has  signal in my apartment :)
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: mcbain on November 14, 2019, 07:08:09 PM
Hi.Yes it works to a degree in the city that is what it was designed for.Try taking it a thousand miles from no where.In the bush.Would you trust your life to it?Not me.Here is a example of why I hate electronics.I have been having a lot of trouble with my 4 wheeldrive shifting the transfer case in and out of 4 wheel.I just spent 600.00 changing the shift motor.3 different shops with all the fancy diagnostic eqipment came too the same conclusion. So I spent the money and it still did not work.Alot of techs scrathing their heads and looking stupid could only say that is what the computer says we dont know.( thats how folks have come to relie on computors)I was alittle peeved to say the least.I went and googled the problem.It was fixed in 30 minuts by simply dis connecting the battery for a bit and rebooting the computor.Moral is I am a lot smarter and still do not trust electronics.I will take a compass anyday.Luck Mcbain.
Title: Re: GPS
Post by: Computer Technician on November 14, 2019, 07:58:17 PM
Yeap
never trust electronics  100%
GPS ,   compass plus  paper map  <-yes_> <-good_> 
GPS is good to take you back to point A , where you came from but everything's possible so you have to be prepared
with plan B if something goes wrong  ^#!